Its cold outside lets talk Heaters, H81, H82, H83, etc.

[Mullaney]

Where would I find the TM number, don't see it on data tag, but there is an NSN and contract # ?

.
That will work.
The NSN will give us the information to track down the TM's
Contract could be useful too since it sets the time of manufacture.

 

[Guyfang]

I seem to remember that this TM is coded other then A? Not for public release, but want to try and find it anyway. Yeah, shoot the NSN here.

 

[IceCastle]

NSN 4520-01-253-4865EJ , the EJ looks unusual, but clear as day on the tag, and no space between it and numbers.
Contract# F09603-86-C-1522 , what I'm pretty sure is a 1 has a scratch thru it, if not a 1 maybe a 4 or 7, but think 1 is correct.
Thank you for your time and assistance!

Edit: Pulled burner again, put a hose onto fuel feed line, turned switch to heat, good fuel flow and pressure gauge dropped to 70psi, I had to use the little capillary sized tube that connects to burner, so I'm going to say fuel flow and pressure are GOOD, so it must be a problem with the nozzle. Neighbor gave me a new .85gph 80 degree spray pattern nozzle, original was 1gph 90 degree, so I think it will be close enough.....

Trudged thru 2 foot of snow to see if I could pull a burner from one of the H82's, they are stacked and bolted together, and face to face, think I'll wait for snow to melt to get a forklift to them.

 

[IceCastle]

New nozzle installed, burner lights, runs 20 seconds, and the red light comes on/solenoid closes. I'll fiddle with fire-eye again, never been happy with the way its setup, there are 3 holes the light has to go thru and they are not perfectly lined up, no tube like on the H82/3 models, one of them might get bigger tomorrow.

 

[IceCastle]

Anyone ever make a plexiglass/polycarbonate cover for the burner so you can see if the light is hitting the fire eye? Obviously could only be used temporarily. I've adjusted it twice now and its still doing the same thing, burner lights, runs for 20 seconds, then the K8 relay trips and shuts off fuel flow. Am I correct in thinking fire eye not seeing the light is what is tripping the relay? Or does this sound like a problem with the relay?

Any luck on finding the manual for the H81?

Edit: I pulled whole burner assembly again, alignment of the 3 holes the light passes thru is as good as its going to get, used a welding rod to make sure it was a straight shot to fire eye, put it all back together and same thing, 20 seconds and red light of death.

I'll ask again, has anyone ever gotten thousand plus hours out of one of these? Or were they such a pos from the get go that they sold them all off with only 2hrs on the meter? I need reliable maintenance free heat, am I just pissing in the wind?

 

[Guyfang]

So far not TM.

 

[Mullaney]

Anyone ever make a plexiglass/polycarbonate cover for the burner so you can see if the light is hitting the fire eye? Obviously could only be used temporarily. I've adjusted it twice now and its still doing the same thing, burner lights, runs for 20 seconds, then the K8 relay trips and shuts off fuel flow. Am I correct in thinking fire eye not seeing the light is what is tripping the relay? Or does this sound like a problem with the relay?

Any luck on finding the manual for the H81?

Edit: I pulled whole burner assembly again, alignment of the 3 holes the light passes thru is as good as its going to get, used a welding rod to make sure it was a straight shot to fire eye, put it all back together and same thing, 20 seconds and red light of death.

I'll ask again, has anyone ever gotten thousand plus hours out of one of these? Or were they such a pos from the get go that they sold them all off with only 2hrs on the meter? I need reliable maintenance free heat, am I just pissing in the wind?

.
TM 5-4520-256-14
HEATER, DUCT TYPE

Public Release - Supposedly H82

Hopefully - Maybe this will help?

 

[Guyfang]

The TM 5-4520-256-14 and the -24P TM's are only for the H2 and H3. On the cover, it only lists H2, but a change, incorporated the H3 info also. Change #7 I think. Unless the H1 is VERY much like the H2 and H3, this TM will not be too much help.

 

[IceCastle]

Thanks, I have that manual already, the H82/83 were clearly built on the same basic platform as the H81, but there are some subtle differences, just not sure how many. I cannot find the rectifier mentioned in post# 193, and the hour meter operates in 110vac, so that is one difference. Fuel filter does not have a replaceable element, so that's another difference. Solenoid that controls fuel flow to burner is in a different location, and thermostat controls are different. No tube for fireeye in burner, and don't know if it even uses same fireeye.

I've cut out a piece of plexi so I can see if light is hitting fireye, just need to drill some holes and mount it. Heading out now to open the burner chamber on one of the H82's to see if one of those fireyes will work, maybe pull the burner too. Did some looking around online last night trying to find a replacement fireye, photocell, etc, used multiple terms and found nothing that is an exact replacement for this one.

At this point I feel like I'm grasping at straws, maybe problem was not nozzle, but in opening it and cleaning it maybe I contaminated it and that is why original no longer works???? Fireeye worked before, but now its either not aligned right, or maybe its what caused the problem in the first place??? Maybe fireye is fine and the problem is the K8 relay?????

Original nozzle was 1gph 80degree (think I said 90degree in a previous post) type W (general purpose) nozzle. The one I replaced it with is .85gph 80 degree Type A, flame is nice and bright, I can see light from viewing window bouncing off the milling machine, so why is fireye not seeing it??? Could nozzle be the problem???

 

[Guyfang]

Jump the relay. See what happens.

 

[IceCastle]

Burner pulled from H82, its different, close, but not exact. Fireye is the same, and this one has a part# 956 made by White Rogers, they call it a "flame detector".

Which terminals should be jumped on relay? I know I had that relay out 20?? years ago, have not fiddled with it since, the panel on H81 does not flip down, it has to come out backside of panel.

Hour meter on the H82 that I pulled burner from reads 1 hour, soot buildup inside combustion chamber indicates it has a lot more time on it.

Edit: Looks like I need to jump terminals F1 and F2.

Edit again: Forgot cover was off burner, went to do jumper test, it lit off and filled shop with smoke, LOL. I'm going to do some socializing, will be back on this tomorrow with jumper test results.

 

[155mm]

IMO i would run the 82's especially since there is no manual available for 81

I have ran my 82 for 387 real hours, my timer is on the burner not the fan circuit. I also deleted the dinky fuel filter and the selector valve for tank and aux (it was sucking air)

82's have issues but we have worked around most of those

 

[IceCastle]

Update: Flame detector is either dead, or not seeing flame, I'm leaning towards dead, but nozzle and flame detector going bad in same event has me questioning. For testing flame detector F1 and F2 connection has to be open for the unit to fire, after it fires F1 and F2 need to be shorted.

I will pull flame detector from other unit, hopefully before it snows again tomorrow.

155mm
I'm stuck with this unit till it warms up and I can use forklift again, hopefully I can get 2 or 3 of the H82's operational and where I want them this summer.

Edit: Flame detector removed, and bench test says its good, open circuit with no light, closed circuit with bright light. One leg of flame detector goes thru a thermostatic snap switch, cold it has continuity. When I had a jumper across F1 and F2 it ran for 5 minutes no problem. Short of putting it all back together and testing again I'm lost, maybe time for that plexiglass cover, maybe add a flame detector sight tube like the H82 burner, maybe swap in the whole burner from the H82.

 

[Guyfang]

This is the Air Force TM for the H81 heater, Maybe you can find it. I tried a while, but no joy. T.O. 35E7-6-26-1

 

[IceCastle]

Flame detector re-installed, tweaked position again just for good measure, approx 20 seconds of fire, and K8 relay trips. Re-test while checking continuity of the thermal switch (S2 in schematic), it never loses continuity, K8 still trips. Plexiglass viewport is next step, once I can verify light is hitting flame detector my only other options will be bypass wiring thru J/P2-F and J/P2-H connectors.

Its a simple loop circuit, F1 terminal on K8 relay, to flame detector D1, to thermal switch S2, and back to terminal F2 on K8 relay.

 

[IceCastle]

Plexiglass burner cover installed, light is hitting flame detector, not as bright as I expected, but no frame of reference to say how bright it should be, or a way to measure. Jumpers installed to eliminate factory wiring and connectors, no difference, 20 seconds of burn and K8 trips.

So either photocell/flame detector is weak, or .85gph is not enough fuel to make a bright enough flame, or the A style hollow core nozzle is just not going to work. From what I have read, photocells die, have found no mention of them getting weak. New photocell , new nozzle and some 3/8" brass thin wall tubing have all been ordered.

 

[155mm]

@IceCastle I will pm you, I have an idea but I dont want to show my ignorance in public just yet, I am going to have to re read your posts and comment in the pm as i read, so it might be a little bit.

 

[IceCastle]

I apologize for the delay in responding to this thread. I replaced the type A nozzle with a type W (original style) nozzle, reinstalled the original flame detector, and added a brass tube to the flame detector, copying the H82 design, and its been working fine ever since. My gut feeling is the type A nozzle just did not produce a bright enough flame, my neighbor just sent me on a wild goose chase by having that one on hand. Sorry, no pics, with the way I have it installed the access panel is against the wall, I may be replacing it with an H82 in the future, will get some pics then.

 

[IceCastle]

Message received from Guyfang " You have posted this same problem in two threads. Not supposed to do that. I am going to delete this thread, and you can go back to the other thread, with answers to your request for a TM, and try and work out your heater problem there. "

My previous problems were with an H81, and those problems were resolved back in February, and never included the problem of not getting power to the L1 solenoid. I am now working on an H82, I found the manual and corrected the problem. Thank you.

 

[Guyfang]

Your other thread has been restored.