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JLTV

swbradley1

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Didn't see anything about it in the forums.

Out of my daily briefing this showed up.

April 2008, National Defense Magazine – (National) Move over MRAP: New light
tactical vehicles are coming. The Army and Marine Corps assert that vehicles suited
for urban warfare will continue to be a necessity, and for that reason, the attractiveness
of trucks with the agility to navigate city streets – and handle roadside bombs – is
growing. Plagued with aging fleets of combat-worn humvees, the ground forces want to
buy as many as 50,000 joint light tactical vehicles (JLTV) and have them in operation
by the mid-2010s. The Marines want to regain their identity as an expeditionary fighting
force capable of doing amphibious operations, and fitting the JLTV aboard their cargo
and amphibious ships is a top priority. For the Army, the requirement is for the vehicles
to be transportable by the CH-47 Chinook helicopter. Protection requirements must not
compromise the ability of crews to acquire what the military calls “situational
awareness” of the environment around the vehicle. The Army’s program executive
officer for combat support advocates building a platform with a foundation that can
quickly adapt to changing threats, such as small arms fire and sophisticated roadside
bombs.
Source:

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2008/April/Move.htm
 

BobS

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You really, REALLY don't want anything to do with the Growler. I turned a job with General Dynamics that was offered. They wanted to bring me in to fix the rollover problems with that thing. I turned it down for a sound engineering reasons, and pay wasn't it.....
 

Tanner

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...and the last I heard, the Ospreys headed overseas w/o the Growlers in the cargo bay...

It's down to a few players now in the JLTV arena - have the specs even been cast in stone yet? Not from what I'm hearing!

"Tanner"
 

emr

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I say straight axles are the way to go anytime...although i love the independents, it just makes sense sometimes to keep it simple and safer. bullet proof straight axles..I really don't know enough to talk about the engineering of this thing, but like i said i also like straight axles....Randy
 

BobS

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Solid axles make the issues WORSE. Shows no one here is familiar with the problems of the Growler, reflect on this little tidbit....

You have a vehicle weighing in at approximately 1200 pounds towing a load twice that on a lever arm longer than the wheelbase of the prime mover. Now make a left hand turn at 25mph. The trailer pushes your prime mover over onto it's side....simple laws of physics and no amount of "doodleing" about changing axle design is going to change that.
 

Tanner

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BobS said:
Solid axles make the issues WORSE. Shows no one here is familiar with the problems of the Growler, reflect on this little tidbit....

You have a vehicle weighing in at approximately 1200 pounds towing a load twice that on a lever arm longer than the wheelbase of the prime mover. Now make a left hand turn at 25mph. The trailer pushes your prime mover over onto it's side....simple laws of physics and no amount of "doodleing" about changing axle design is going to change that.
Ummmm.... actually Bob, I'm a someone, not a no one, with a mechanical design background. I AM well aware of the Growlers' issues - I've been all over them, top to bottom - they are a customer of mine & I'm one of the guys WELL AWARE of the tipping issues with the vehicle in question...

Granted, there are aspects of the vehicle that could have been better designed, no doubt about it - yep, it has it's DNA cribbed from the Mutt - and there is possibly some inside jockeying that played out in who got the contract. The Rae-Beck vehicle looks to be a good solution, how long have you been working with them? You did a nice job on their ITV!

Tanner
 

BobS

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Tanner,

I apologize about my abrupt answer-I was time constrained at the time of the reply and I was a horse's butt by not controlling my mouth.

Rae-Beck has a decent vehicle (there are some issues I see with it, butI had nothing to do with it....wish I could claim it.... LOL...but I can't) and they followed the requirements closely. It is all Jerry Bazinski's work. Overall, I think he did a good job-far better than the EFSS prime mover. Wish I did work with them...they are 3 blocks from my house in MI!!! LOL!!!
 

Tanner

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Hey Bob -

No issues here - thought you might have had some hands-on in the ITV projects at Rae-Beck. Their vehicle program looks good, but the specs make it appear that it would also be pushing the limits of axle weight allowable for the V22 -

I haven't heard anything lately from Gen Dyn or Growler re parts needs... of course, I haven't gone out of my way to call on them in the past 5-6 months either.

"Tanner"
 

BobS

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Tanner said:
Hey Bob -

No issues here - thought you might have had some hands-on in the ITV projects at Rae-Beck. Their vehicle program looks good, but the specs make it appear that it would also be pushing the limits of axle weight allowable for the V22 -

I haven't heard anything lately from Gen Dyn or Growler re parts needs... of course, I haven't gone out of my way to call on them in the past 5-6 months either.

"Tanner"
Yep, from what I have heard, it is right on the ragged edge for the internal loading. Couple of other small issues but they can be worked out in development.

LOL about the Growler....
 

BobS

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Capt.Marion said:
That looks like a souped up M151... like the FAV 151s or whatever, the black ones with the roll bar and m60s mounted all over them.
Scale is deceiving-the EFSS Growler is considerable smaller than the m151 in it's various versions, altho' it is made up of 151 design parts.
 

Tanner

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BobS said:
Capt.Marion said:
That looks like a souped up M151... like the FAV 151s or whatever, the black ones with the roll bar and m60s mounted all over them.
Scale is deceiving-the EFSS Growler is considerable smaller than the m151 in it's various versions, altho' it is made up of 151 design parts.
Errr - sorta true - the tub is new, not a repop Mutt, the suspension is different, with tubular a-arms & coilover air bladder shocks for air-ride & height adjustments. IIRC, the trans & diffs MIGHT be the only carryovers from a Mutt/151... I'd have to strain the grey-matter to recall all the changes - it ain't a Mutt or Son of Mutt -

"Tanner"
 

BobS

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I meant the hard parts-knuckles are recasts, wheel bearing packs are the same, geometry is close (not exact though-which is good), engine has been replaced, but trans and t/case is same patterns (can be retrofit into a 151) and various other hard parts came from 151. IIRC the Growler is 2 feet shorter than 151?, 48 inches wide at the widest point?, and 40 inches tall in the airtransport configuration??? It has been a while since I looked at the Marine Corps specs...
 

pjfitzgerald

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Tanner said:
...and the last I heard, the Ospreys headed overseas w/o the Growlers in the cargo bay...

It's down to a few players now in the JLTV arena - have the specs even been cast in stone yet? Not from what I'm hearing!

"Tanner"
I'm new here, but maybe can add a little about the JLTV...ever though most of the chat is moving in the direction of the smaller wehicles...

The "specs" binders went out a little over a month ago for the JLTV and teams of six of the ususal players (GDLS, IMG, AM General, FPI, BAE, BAE (on two teams!, after buying Armor Holdings)) responded by the due date of 4/14/08. By June, up to four will be chosen to go through the months long TD phase, and then maybe up to four teams chosen for the next phase. The specs are written in stone as far as the evaluation, but subject to change based on any new emerging threats, we can only hope. No use having a vehilce designed to todays threat being pushed of the end of the line three years from now (2011), ill prepared for some EM threat that comes out in 2012.

Reading between the lines in the Q&A portion (public-release) of the JLTV program, one spec it does have is for an Active Protection System against RPG - Ratheon's in-development system most likely instead of the Trophy System, they have better connections - which just defeats RPG and the like - Maybe Ratheon' will be much more advanced and deflect .50 AP and smaller...
 

cranetruck

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Here is more about the Growler, it appears not to be the perfect MV...

http://www.sftt.org/cgi-bin/csNews/csNews.cgi?database=Unlisted 2007.db&command=viewone&id=34

It may need some training wheels, "Variable geometry track width" or whatever the technical term may be. :)

Lots of politics here...

"Known as the Expeditionary Fire Support System, or EFSS, the truck-trailer-mortar combination is an integral part of the war-fighting concept of ``ship-to-objective maneuver.' The Ospreys, each with a Growler and the mortar or the ammo trailer inside, would launch from ships, bypassing coastal defenses to land deep in enemy territory, unload and attack enemy targets.

While Maj. Gen. Catto has steadfastly defended EFSS in general and the Growler contract in particular, he can't be happy with the White House decision to blacklist the EFSS program after the Office of Management and Budget singled it out as an example of ``programs that are not performing,' according to ExpectMore.gov, a web site unveiled by OMB on 6 Feb."
 

BobS

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Be careful judging ANYTHING Steve Wilson says. I would look outside to check if he said the sky was blue-he is known as a sensationalist "reporter" (and I use the term very, VERY loosely). He is known in the Metro Detroit area as a person that embodies the worst fo the Geraldo Rivera style of journalism. He looks to make himself appear as a caring hero of the downtrodden and will not give both sides to a story if his life depended on it.

That being said, the issues over General Dynamics, American Growler, and the Marine Corps are not nearly as clear cut as he would like you to believe.
 

halftrack

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Seems like we are re-inventing the wheel. Wasn't there this thing called a "mighty might" somewhere a few decades ago. Seems like we aways go back to basics.
 
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