Jump starting using 12v systems

[McP47]

I have both. A 24v charger and a few 12v chargers. Charging my batteries independently each with a 12v charger ALWAYS yields better results.

Found this thread as I have been having similar issues with my batteries I believe being out of balance charge wise. Noticed, a few weeks back my wait light had been intermittent and hard starts happening. I am well versed on the potential control box/sensor, issues, etc, however, when I charged with my 24 volt NOCO charger via slave port, everything was fine. I have two less than 1 yer old NAPA 6TLs and this week I noticed same thing happening again even after being on charger for 24 hours And showing full charge. When running volt meter is reading in yellow. I have several 12 volt accessories running off of one battery and i read above that this amongst other things can cause imbalance in the series.

My question here is, my NOCO can go 12V...can I charge each battery independently using the terminal clamps instead of the slave port, one at a time? Do I need to disconnect the negative wire in the series?

 

[Milcommoguy]

Found this thread as I have been having similar issues with my batteries I believe being out of balance charge wise. Noticed, a few weeks back my wait light had been intermittent and hard starts happening. I am well versed on the potential control box/sensor, issues, etc, however, when I charged with my 24 volt NOCO charger via slave port, everything was fine. I have two less than 1 yer old NAPA 6TLs and this week I noticed same thing happening again even after being on charger for 24 hours And showing full charge. When running volt meter is reading in yellow. I have several 12 volt accessories running off of one battery and i read above that this amongst other things can cause imbalance in the series.

My question here is, my NOCO can go 12V...can I charge each battery independently using the terminal clamps instead of the slave port, one at a time? Do I need to disconnect the negative wire in the series?

Beating a dead battery to death thread.

60 Amp alternator trucks (or 200 Amp without the 14 Volt lead connected)

IMO....... One is asking for trouble when "half tapping" the 24 Volt system to pull 12 Volts. It is impossible to equalize the charging and discharging across both batteries when going this route. Make the mistake and leave the 12 Volt circuit ON (or parasitic drain)... and one is going down the rabbit hole to a big headache. Batteries, start boxes, stranded on road, no fun.......

The smart way out if only a 60 Amp alternator truck is with a 24 Volt to 12 Volt battery equalizer. Then one can pull 12 Volts off the 12 Volt battery (within reason) while maintaining battery balance. OR use it to provide the 12 Volts to just the 12 volt equipment staying within its design.

Use a commercial quality 40 - 100 Amp device. Not cheap and can be a bolt on solution to 60 Amp rigs. I run a ton of 12 Volt radio gear off my 60 Amp alternator using a 100 Amp equalizer unit with NEVER a problem with battery fail or starting issues.
SEE > https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/cata...ery-equalizer-21060E00-21080E00-21100E00.html

OR go with the 200 Amp 24 / 14 volt alternator set-up with the 14 Volt lead connected. Later issue and very reliable. (must have been a reason LOL???)

Balance is the key word. Tenths of volts is critical.
You can charge each battery with a 12 volt charger to bring them up to the level at which they are wiling to take. Doesn't mean they will be balanced or play nice in the 24 Volt system if damaged cells, individual chemistry, internal resistance, mismatched capacity, etc. The deal here is best to have matches batteries from the get-go in the 24 Vols system. Once one begins to fail for any reason or the goofy 12 volt connection takes its toll... all bets are off for a reliable system. Check voltage of each battery one at a time to determine an equal voltage at each battery, as in balanced across the pair when charging in a 24 Volt system. Individual load test-dump will work too. Make sure all connections are correct at ALL connection points thru-out the system.

It's a fine balancing act that requires a little thought to the juice boxes, CAMO

 

[Coug]

If you don't want to go the battery equalizer route (the best way to go with the 24V systems without the 12V center tap), at least do a 24-12V converter.

But you should also be doing a full charge with the NOCO on the rear battery every month to make sure it's brought up, even if you have to 12V loads hooked up to it, because the forward battery always seems to charge a little more than the rear. This will help make sure the rear isn't always undercharging.

Better than the 12V charger on the rear would be to rotate the battery positions every month or so, that way they both get the same amount of charing time/position time, and will age relatively evenly.

 

[McP47]

If you don't want to go the battery equalizer route (the best way to go with the 24V systems without the 12V center tap), at least do a 24-12V converter.

But you should also be doing a full charge with the NOCO on the rear battery every month to make sure it's brought up, even if you have to 12V loads hooked up to it, because the forward battery always seems to charge a little more than the rear. This will help make sure the rear isn't always undercharging.

Better than the 12V charger on the rear would be to rotate the battery positions every month or so, that way they both get the same amount of charing time/position time, and will age relatively evenly.

Ty both for the feedback. I will look into adding an equalizer...that being said, rotating for now until I can get squared away is a fine option...If I did want to charge just the rear battery, do I need to do anything then just connect my NOCO clamps to the rear terminals? For some reason I was thinking I needed to interrupt the series.

 

[Milcommoguy]

If you don't want to go the battery equalizer route (the best way to go with the 24V systems without the 12V center tap), at least do a 24-12V converter.

But you should also be doing a full charge with the NOCO on the rear battery every month to make sure it's brought up, even if you have to 12V loads hooked up to it, because the forward battery always seems to charge a little more than the rear. This will help make sure the rear isn't always undercharging.

Better than the 12V charger on the rear would be to rotate the battery positions every month or so, that way they both get the same amount of charing time/position time, and will age relatively evenly.

How ya doing... I knew this was going to short circuit... LOL

Just charge the batteries one at a time. No need to disconnect anything. Observe polarity. Don't get confused by the jumper between the two. It will become the negative for charging the front battery. (If you have them installed correctly ??) Just lay the leads down like your going to jump start Frankenstein ++ / --

Having the 60 Amp system (and in my design totally capable) and the 100 Amp equalizer - balancer, it was the way to go.

Yea, one can swap batteries and build muscles monthly. Not something most are going to do IMO. Equalizer - converter... Potato, potahto. Would work either way as I stated...IMO my system, better to actually charge / equalize the 12 Volt battery ( ID'ed as the back one) and then if needed, one could draw a LARGE peak currents for the 12 Volt system if needed. (Not a winch type load)

Here's another unit. > http://cooperwiring.com/content/pub...ery_equalizers/52x04_converter_equalizer.html

Either way .... these are good ways to GET - er - I'am DONE, CAMO

 

[TOBASH]

Found this thread as I have been having similar issues with my batteries I believe being out of balance charge wise. Noticed, a few weeks back my wait light had been intermittent and hard starts happening. I am well versed on the potential control box/sensor, issues, etc, however, when I charged with my 24 volt NOCO charger via slave port, everything was fine. I have two less than 1 yer old NAPA 6TLs and this week I noticed same thing happening again even after being on charger for 24 hours And showing full charge. When running volt meter is reading in yellow. I have several 12 volt accessories running off of one battery and i read above that this amongst other things can cause imbalance in the series.

My question here is, my NOCO can go 12V...can I charge each battery independently using the terminal clamps instead of the slave port, one at a time? Do I need to disconnect the negative wire in the series?

Of course you can charge each one separately with the ignition switch in the OFF position.

 

[Coug]

Ty both for the feedback. I will look into adding an equalizer...that being said, rotating for now until I can get squared away is a fine option...If I did want to charge just the rear battery, do I need to do anything then just connect my NOCO clamps to the rear terminals? For some reason I was thinking I needed to interrupt the series.

yeah, just hook straight to the terminals of the battery and you should be fine.
Equalizer is definitely the best solution.

 

[Curtisje]

Found this thread as I have been having similar issues with my batteries I believe being out of balance charge wise. Noticed, a few weeks back my wait light had been intermittent and hard starts happening. I am well versed on the potential control box/sensor, issues, etc, however, when I charged with my 24 volt NOCO charger via slave port, everything was fine. I have two less than 1 yer old NAPA 6TLs and this week I noticed same thing happening again even after being on charger for 24 hours And showing full charge. When running volt meter is reading in yellow. I have several 12 volt accessories running off of one battery and i read above that this amongst other things can cause imbalance in the series.

My question here is, my NOCO can go 12V...can I charge each battery independently using the terminal clamps instead of the slave port, one at a time? Do I need to disconnect the negative wire in the series?

I'm not familiar with your charger but it sounds like some of these guys are. Good luck.

If your interested you could also go this route. It is working great for me for over a year now, not that that is a long time. I'll start bragging if it lasts more than 10 years.

24 volt conversion... sort of

I bypassed the glowplug resistors a while back because others had done it. I also have a volt meter on each battery so I can see how each is doing. I didn't like watching the front battery drop to 10V or lower during startup nor am I a fan of swapping the battery positions every few months. I...

steelsoldiers.com

 

[McP47]

How ya doing... I new this was going to short circuit... LOL

Just charge the batteries one at a time. No need to disconnect anything. Observe polarity. Don't get confused by the jumper between the two. It will become the negative for charging the front battery. (If you have them installed correctly ??) Just lay the leads down like your going to jump start Frankenstein ++ / --

Having the 60 Amp system (and in my design totally capable) and the 100 Amp equalizer - balancer, it was the way to go.

Yea, one can swap batteries and build muscles monthly. Not something most are going to do IMO. Equalizer - converter... Potato, potahto. Would work either way as I stated...IMO my system, better to actually charge the battery, equalizing and then if needed, one could draw a LARGE peak currents for the 12 Volt system.

Here's another unit. > http://cooperwiring.com/content/pub...ery_equalizers/52x04_converter_equalizer.html

Either way .... these are good ways to GET-er I'am DONE, CAMO

Your puns are outstanding Many thanks again for the perspective. Super helpful.

 

[Milcommoguy]

I'm not familiar with your charger but it sounds like some of these guys are. Good luck.

If your interested you could also go this route. It is working great for me for over a year now, not that that is a long time. I'll start bragging if it lasts more than 10 years.

24 volt conversion... sort of

I bypassed the glowplug resistors a while back because others had done it. I also have a volt meter on each battery so I can see how each is doing. I didn't like watching the front battery drop to 10V or lower during startup nor am I a fan of swapping the battery positions every few months. I...

steelsoldiers.com

This is a HMMWV... Not a CUCV.

4L80 E transmission rigs are already to go. Problem are the trucks running the 60 Amp alternators or not connecting the 14 Volt lead on 200 Amp equipped rigs.

The fix is add equalizer $$ or upgrade to 200 Amp alternator $$$$ or stop robbing off the 12 Volt battery and popping Excedrin's.

Converted many a CUCV to one alternator, swap to 12 Volt starter, ditched the ballast resistor, starter relay under dash, manual glow control....etc.
Works factory perfect and straight forward for the 12 Volts CUCV crowd. Lasts as long as you want. Parts from any "ZONE"

HMMWV 12 Volt? Doable yes, BUT why ?? Not so easy, plus $$$$$$+$$$ and more $$$

Things to think about. Wiper motor, fan motor, IP solenoids, starter, all lights, start control box, AC clutch, engine cooling sys, gauges, window washer and on and on.
NOPE. BAD IDEA. Forgot horn... LOL, CAMO

 

[TOBASH]

I wanted to add an equalizer but Queen Latiffa would take up too much damned space and Denzel is getting older and might be unreliable and Edward Woodward is most likely defunct.

 

[Action]

Here is a cheap 12v equilizer....

 

[Curtisje]

This is a HMMWV... Not a CUCV.

Duh... My bad. Not sure why I originally started following this thread... probably just curiosity. Haha.

 

[McP47]

So after finally getting into checking things out I realized I do not have the 60 amp setup...I was going off of memory, which is obviously not very good these days. What I have is the 100 Amp Niehoff Dual voltage 28/14.

I have been going through many previous threads and based on what I have read so far, it seems I could solve my balancing problems by running a cable from the 14V tap to the positive side of the rear battery, which is where my current 12V items are tapped and not require any separate balancer or converter? Am I thinking about this correctly?