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Just purchased MEP-002A - Rent our home - suggestions on best way to use?

445gsdss

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Since the house is already grounded, you won't use a ground rod, but rather connect the generator's frame to the earth ground of the house. Also the generator's bonding wire from ground to neutral should be disconnected.
Looks like 2 options, back feed the panel or run outlets directly off of MEP-002. If back-feeding, the main panel for house is on west end of the structure, the generator would be on the east - about 60' apart. The ground for the house is right where the utility enters the house. Does it matter the distance between the genny and the house ground if back feeding?

For running an outlet whip right off the poles of the genny output, the generator should be grounded to 8' ground bar - correct?

Thanks.
 

445gsdss

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Ok, think I found the answer in the referenced thread - but please let me know if I'm wrong. When back-feeding house, the will be 2 grounds. On for the generator chassis (to ground rod), one for the power the generator is producing. (goes to house ground) The 2 are not connected to one another as the neutral ground strap on the generator is disconnected in this configuration - correct?

In the case of running a power-whip, the generator neutral ground strap stays CONNECTED and the generator is grounded to ground rod only - correct?

If I'm good, could someone offer an opinion on these questions:

- Is a galvanized 8' ground rod at the generator acceptable in either configuration?
- what gauge wire from the frame ground to the ground rod should be used?

Thanks
 

steelypip

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If you are feeding the house, use the house ground, if the genset is stand alone, use a ground rod.
It's kind of like the rule of counting for the Holy Hand Grenade:

The number of the grounds shall be one. Two is too many, and zero is not enough. Three is Right Out. One ground rod to ground them all, and EVERYTHING grounded to that one rod. This prevents the ugly phenomenon known as a ground loop.

Code allows for the ground to be at either the generator or the house. If you have utility service, you have an existing ground rod at the service entrance. Just make sure that you bond the ground wire on your four-lead to the house ground rod, and disconnect the frame ground lead on the genset.
 

Isaac-1

Well-known member
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While we are talking about thou shall nots, backfeeding while an all too common practice is generally frowned upon, the level of frowning may range from a warning against it, to being disconnected from the grid and having to beg and promise to never do it again to be reconnected, and may even be a criminal offense in some places (I have seen comments to this regard online, but have never seen references to specific laws, it is certainly an NEC code violation tough.

There are all too many stories that have been posted online about backfeeding killing lineman, etc. As well as close call accidents involving people that "knew what they were doing" most of these involved relatives of said person doing something stupid even after being told by the person that "knew what they were doing" saying not to touch it. For those that may not understand the issue, if the main breaker is closed back feeding can potentially energize the distribution lines momentarily with thousands of volts of electricity as it is stepped up when fed backwards through the pole top transformer, thereby potentially killing a lineman working on a "dead" line even miles away.

Here is a fictional amalgamation story or two based on a combination of reported incidents;

During a prolonged outage an electrically experienced husband turns off the main breaker and back feeds through a dryer outlet suicide cord using a small generator that will run only limited loads in the house. Tells rest of family not to touch the breaker box or the rigged suicide (2 male end) cord. 4 days later the power comes back on while the husband is across town helping his brother in law with a fallen tree, the wife wants gird power and wants it NOW!!! so she can do laundry, dishes, etc that the small generator would not power, so so has the teen age son go flip the breaker back on. The son ignores the big DON"T TOUCH ME sign and proceeds to flip the main breaker back on without first turning off and disconnecting the generator. This was an older breaker box, and the cycles of the line and generator happened to magnify the peak, welding closed the contacts on the breaker, and a moment later the breaker explodes injuring or killing the son.

Now same story with a different variation

During a prolonged outage an electrically experienced husband turns off the main breaker and back feeds through a dryer outlet suicide cord using a small generator that will run only limited loads in the house. Tells rest of family not to touch the breaker box or the rigged suicide (2 male end) cord. 4 days later the wife sees the people across the street have power while the husband is across town helping his brother in law with a fallen tree, the wife wants gird power and wants it NOW!!! so she can do laundry, dishes, etc that the small generator would not power, so so has the teen age son go flip the breaker back on to see if they have power too. And they don't but would have had power in a couple of more minutes except for the fact that when the son flipped the breaker without first turning off and disconnecting the generator, he backfeeds the pole top transformer while the lineman was in the process of reconnecting the line that had broken due to a downed limb 2 doors down the street, killing the lineman in the process.
 
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Chainbreaker

Well-known member
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I recently added a generator inlet box with interlock kit to my barn/shop service entrance. I spent a total of $187 (inlet box @ $75, interlock kit @ $69 plus the wire, conduit and 50 amp breaker @ $43) and I did not shop around much for price. It was an easy install because I only had to move one 50 Amp breaker down to make room for the 50 Amp generator breaker to work with interlock. Fortunately I had open positions in breaker box to relocate it, if not you will need to double up breakers by using piggy back breakers. Although, I spent another $201 for 30' of UL SOOW cable and Hubble Plug to connect it up to generator.

You might approach your landlord and see if he will pay for the hardware if you (your cousin electrician) provides the labor to install it. It would add some value to the house to be "generator ready" and is a much safer approach. Otherwise, you can in theory with a little effort, de-install it and take it with you when you move since you might need it in the next house you occupy. This way you get full use of your MEP-002a's output and all appliances work with some load management practices. It really comes down to how long do you expect to be renting this house to make it a worthwhile effort.
 

Metalflames

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I was wondering if you are in fact using a dryer outlet to backfeed, most outlets would have 3 wires (2 hot 1 neutral). How should the ground be properly run. I understand that the neutral and ground are bonded in the panel of the home but shouldn't a wire still run from the homes ground to the gen set?
 

bmwsyc

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Brooklyn Center, MN
Metalflames, you are correct. You would need to have a 4 wire dryer receptacle to get your ground out to the generator. Back feeding the dryer receptacle is bending the rules enough, if you have to lay an extra wire out between your panel and generator to provide for equipment grounding, you should maybe step back and reassess your risk.

when I say "you", I don't mean you specifically, I mean in general.
 

steelypip

Active member
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Location
Charlottesville, VA
I was wondering if you are in fact using a dryer outlet to backfeed, most outlets would have 3 wires (2 hot 1 neutral). How should the ground be properly run. I understand that the neutral and ground are bonded in the panel of the home but shouldn't a wire still run from the homes ground to the gen set?
A great question. Speaking hypothetically, the "right" answer (remembering that this is criminal negligence charges level of badness if you hurt somebody when you did this) is to run a separate ground wire and bond to the house ground. Newer dryer outlets actually are four-prong so that the dryer's skin can be separately grounded just like you want to do a generator.
 

storeman

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Until I developed an interest in mil generators and joined SS, I never gave a thought to grounding a portable generator and I suspect 90 % of big box buyers are the same. Most, I suspect just start and run extensions.

I also suspect many just hook up a 30 amp cord to the genny and back-feed an available connection. I have a 30 amp 220 outlet on the side of my house wired 25 years ago for an RV (never had or hosted an RV). It was put there specifically to back feed the panel. Used to be pretty commonplace. Of course, I didn't have any teenagers around to override my safety precautions, poor as they might have been.

Just saying.

Jerry :grd:
 
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