Leaking oil filters at base

[m35a2cowner]

Filter numbers

Wallew, I did some digging and came up with the oil filter number. Its a NAPA 1458. Also, found my axle nut socket. If anyone is interested the number on that (Its a KD Tool) is KD24453.

 

[devilman96]

Napa (wix) PN 1458 Used on Case, Oliver and White tractors.... also Drott, HERCULES, Hobart and Michigan equipment... Height is 8.078 OD is 4.285 Thread is 7/8-16... Gasket (attached to case) is 2.834 OD 2.462 ID and .200 in height...

Somebody put a filter adapter kit on there Napa (wix) use to make a lot of these for Cummings motors but have discontinued all but one 4067 and it doesn't fit a Deuce...

Or you can simply install a filter stud to screw the filter into... Which there might be a Hercules PN from another engine which works... (good probability)

Inquiring minds want to know!!!! Pull one of those filters and send a pic please...

Im about 1 one oil and/or fuel change from machining adapters for all of my filters... any takers if I were to make them?

 

[Djfreema]

I'd take a set of those adapters!

 

[m35a2cowner]

Let me see if I can get some time this weekend to take a filter off and get you a picture of the base and the filter mount. Check back Saturday or Sunday.

 

[wallew]

I'm going to purchase one of those filters and then find out it's thread pitch and count. Then pull one of my filters and check the bottom of the screw-in post and get IT'S thread pitch and count.

As a gunsmith, I can get that info with the equipment that I have. I'll see if I can get match these thread pitch/counts. WORST CASE is I will have to make my own. No biggie, just need the correct sized pipe to put on my dies to thread it.

I'll keep you informed.

Isn't it ODD how this thread took a turn for the better?

jim

 

[Dieselsmoke]

I'll take several sets of them adapters, and know a bunch of other folks that would as well!!
Thanks to Devilman 96 for posting the P/N on that filter. I was able to cross reference the number and get the specs(I have the Baldwin program on my computer) The Napa/WIX 1458 = Baldwin BT124, The OD is 4 1/4", lenght 7 11/32, Thread 7/8" Pitch 16, 20 PSI bypass, drainback type, blue list price $11.51 retail list $28.78. Used on Oliver, White, etc. Replaces White 40-0000-406
Sure would be nice to have spin on filters

 

[wallew]

So, all we need now is one of the threaded tubes on our current filter and see what size the hole is and it's thread count.

It would be too simple for it to be a 7/8" x 16 now, wouldn't it.

Regardless, all it will take is the correct size tube, and the correct sized dies to thread both ends. INSTANT adapter.

Should be relatively simple to make, unless the sizes are hugely different. Then it would take some machine time to alter the two different ends. If that's the case (and I hope it's not) all we need to do is find an oil filter that HAS the correct hole size and pitch count.

16 threads per inch isn't that fine, as my thread counter goes up to 84 threads per inch.

I'll let you know what I find out. Thread counter is sitting on my table next to the computer right now. All I've got to do is remove one oil filter and do some measurements.

jim

EDIT (7/6/06) - OK the TPI is 14 - NOT 16 - I found this out once I got the new middle post - see my answer below

 

[m35a2cowner]

Measurements of spin on oil filters

I posted this message last night but for some reason it didn't last. It might be that the pictures were to large so I'll post two pictures in one post and two in another. I did some measuring and the measurements are the picture file names. Please note that the caliper in the picture is not extremely accurate. Sorry the flash washed some of the color out of the pictures. A camera upgrade is needed. Thanks very much to Jim for help resizing the pictures. Hope this is what everyone needs.

 

[m35a2cowner]

Pictures continued

Here are the other two pictures

 

[wallew]

I went over to see "The Deuce Doctor" (RandyLBarnes - sorry dude, but you're stuck with it) and he had the remains of a deuce that he'd purchased as a parts truck. It has the filter base intact, though the upper filters are missing, still attached to the engine.

As he was showing me what was left on it, we both looked at the oil filter base and then looked at each other. "Gotta come off". "Yup, then we got some work to do". I'm not sure which one of said what, but hey, great minds think alike. Then I try and follow along understanding.

Oh, and just a mention - The Deuce Doctor is currently doing research on air based windshield wiper motor. Specifically those that would fit a deuce and work well. The one's we've both had are pitiful and don't hold up to the cold weather here (ice and snow) when we actually do get it.

 

[houdel]

Don't know if this will help or not, but back in the days whent I earned money by twisting wrenches, the old Chevy V-8 motors had a cannister style filter similar to that on the Deuce, except it hung down below the engine (not as much mess when changing the cartridge). A few years later Chevy switched to spin-on filters at the same location on the bottom of the block. It didn't take long for the aftermarket to come out with an adapter that bolted into the cartridge base to use spin-on filters instead of the cartridge. The old Chevy cartridge was about the size of the Deuce but not quite as high. I'd check out sources like J. C. Whitney (they were Warshawsky back then) to see of they offer any such adapters. Or possibly some big truck parts suppliers might have something.

 

[DrFoster]

Dang guys, I forgot all about that PITA with the filters...

Time for a remote mount kit!

 

[wallew]

OK, now for an update.

After unsucsessfully looking for a 7/8" OD pipe that I could thread to 14 TPI, Desert Rat asked why I was reinventing the wheel? Stupid me, I asked "What do you mean?"

His reply SOLVED the problem. He replied, "Just take an old middle post, thread it and cut it to length".

WELL DUH, AM I STUPID OR WHAT?

So I purchased a 'cannister set' from Saturn Surplus (thx jay) so I could have one to 'play' with and not booger up the one on my truck. Plus it got me a new cannister, filter, spring, shim and the two gaskets - the lower one is leaking.

I am about to order the die. RandyLBarnes has the 2" die handle I can borrow.

When I spoke with DR, who coincidentally is on his way BACK to Howard Hammonds as I type this, (he will call me on Friday evening), Howard said he could have as many as he could find. And he said they were 'laying all over the place'. I told Brent to get ALL that he could find. Once my die comes in, I will cut the threads on the new one I have and then we will see. Hopefully this is an 'easy' conversion.

I have ordered ONE Napa filter (145 and will MAKE SURE that it IS a 7/8" 14 TPI thread count before spending money on TWO of them. Guy said it was at the warehouse and he would have it dropped into the 'next run' , which would be there in a couple of hours.

I WILL report back.

jim

 

[wallew]

NOW I'M COMPLETELY DEPRESSED.

How in GODS NAME can the base where the post screws into have an ID of .915 (59/64th) and yet the post itself have an OD of .995 (essentially 1")? AND the threads spec out at .945 (61/64th).

So it WILL NOT FIT the Napa 7/8" 16 TPI at all. WAAY to big. I just got back from Napa and there is NO WAY that the middle post, as it is threaded to go into the oil filter base will EVER fit any spin on filter. I went through their filter book for almost fifteen minutes, checking different sized filter ID's and ONLY the three listed below WERE 7/8" 14.

The Napa filter #1458 is 7/8" 16 TPI. There are TWO other Napa filters that have the 7/8" 14 TPI. Their numbers are #1843 & #1755. Though I did NOT check their overall length or OD.

So it appears that it WILL require turning down the middle post on a lathe after all. WHICH IS BY NO MEANS what I had in mind.

M35a2cowner, could you go back and recheck the numbers on the spin on filter? I don't know exactly what the 'adapter' that you have in your oil filter base, but it would be extremely helpful to get a measurement of it. If it IS 7/8 16 TPI that means that the piece was turned on a lathe...

thx

jim

 

[wallew]

Here is the same topic over in HOT RODDING section:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=58144

 

[m35a2cowner]

Happy to help

Just so were are ll operating on the same page, the whole oil filter adapter/mount -on engine- appears to be different on mine. I have a spare canister type engine and they do look different. Take a look at the pictures I posted earlier and see if it looks like yours. If you would like I can take the filters off again and get you a picture of or measurement of what you want. Just let me know.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Really stupid question here. Why are you guys pulling your hair out trying to do this? Is there nothing else that needs done? Seems like alot of effort for very little return. For me, anyway, I like the ability to look at the filter itself after a change. If I'm showing my ignorance here, please forgive me.

 

[motorolanut]

its a man thing we like tall canisters, especially if there full of BEER!!!

 

[FSBruva]

Kenny-

I believe they mentioned it's because they're lazy. Which explains why they are tearing their hair out and expending lots of effort trying to fix a system that has worked just fine ... for 50 years..... oh wait... now I'm confused.

Matt

 

[m35a2cowner]

I'll keep doing it until I need a wig

Ouch....I am a child of the spin on era, you like to stay with what you know. Also, righty tighty no leaky...it has its appeal. Besides isn't (sadly) our whole society built on trying to fix something that has worked? If it didn't, I wouldn't have a deuce


I believe they mentioned it's because they're lazy. Which explains why they are tearing their hair out and expending lots of effort trying to fix a system that has worked just fine for ... 50 years..... oh wait... now I'm confused.
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