Legal Issues that could effect all MV Owners

[zout]

The M109 - 1970 I have was titled as it was with its Military # - that has not been an issue as they are considered historic as they fall into the 25yr or older vehicles. The 1963 M43B1 and Debs M38A1 both are BOS w/registration only and we have no problems with them - its the 1970 on vehicles that fall into having to meet specific Federal Compliances - it not so much the serial # as it is these. We can do nothing but stay where we are at or like others have done is present our hobby to them and let them know we are not a bunch of nut cases. The M109 came from Tn and SF97 filled out there and titled there - title then presented here and grandfathered in. BUT - being one of these newer vehicles is a whole nother issue with them and they seem to be aware of it.

 

[3dAngus]

Now THAT'S a camo job!!!

(Zout's avatar)

 

[papabear]

Last time I got a M35A3 titled in Ga. I had an older M109A2 titled at the same time. It has handled with kid gloves direct to the title office and the Atlanta office was skipped.
A month later, I got an official State letter from the DMV that it was a mistake and they insisted on getting the title back.
They said it would never happen again, as there had been some inconsistencies in how the titles were handled in the State of Georgia on the older vehicles.
I wrote them back and asked them how they would like a big fart instead, as it was inside the envelope.
I then sold the M109 to a fella in Michigan with full disclosure and paperwork getting the title and having the letter demanding the return. The state of Michigan issued a new title without hesitation.
The State of Georgia got a big fart.

Well...that is EXACTLY what Zout and I want want to correct.

Georgia needs to get up to speed here and realize that yes, civilian vehicles made after 1980 have 17 digits and a VIN but military vehicles DO NOT in most cases. They have a serial number instead and the amount of digits in that number vary.

GA will tag and or title older stuff with serial numbers and no NTSB sticker (I've never seen or heard of one on any MV) as long as they can find something close in their system, I.E....Kaiser, Jeep, AMG...etc etc.

GA will tag and title these BMY/Harsco trucks which are much safer than the 800 series trucks they already allow or we will raise so much hades that they will give in or GL will not be allowed to sell them in GA.

I gotta tell ya...it's just a matter of finding the right person in authority and it's a done deal. Guess we might have to call in some muscle but whatever it takes, it's gonna happen.

If anyone has a BMY/Harsco vehicle, specifically a 5ton titled (legally) in any state...not a "forced input type" i would appreciate a copy of the State Title with your name, address, serial # etc redacted. Or, you can just send it to me and I'll take care of the personal security stuff.

 

[maccus]

"GA will tag and title these BMY/Harsco trucks which are much safer than the 800 series trucks they already allow or we will raise so much hades that they will give in or GL will not be allowed to sell them in GA." Are you saying PB that GA will not allow BMYs to be used on GA highways ? That should really make the folks at Ft. Benning happy as they still use the trucks some. It will be interesting to see what happens when a state like GA with so many military instillations starts telling the federal government what they can and can't do. Hummmm I bet one call from the post commander to the governor would take care of it right now. Or a call from the base/post closure committee asking about operating military vehicles in GA. OUCH !!

 

[zout]

I will make this smaller - this will be a little LONG:

Government CFR @102-34.305 CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS
What forms do we use to transfer ownership when selling a motor vehicle?
Use the following forms to transfer ownership
(a) SF 97, The United States Government Certificate to Obtain Title to a Motor vehicle , IF both of the following apply:
(1) - The motor vehicle will be retitled by a State,Commonwelath,Territory or possession of the United Sates or the District of Columbia: and (2) The purchaser intends to operate VEHICLE ON HIGHWAYS.

Note@to 102-34.305 (a)(2): DO NOT USE SF97 if the Government owned motor vehicle is either NOT designed for operation on highways
etc etc et.
Here is some more below

 

[zout]

Now as to GSA and GL

Transfer Of Title:
a. blah blah blah
b. Transfer of title to vehicles: Government liquidations will supply a SF97 (not a title but to OBTAIN ONE) to customers under the following conditions:
The vehicle must have been sold in "useable: property sale (sale # is less then 6000). GL will not issue SF97's for vehicles sold in Scrap material sales.
THIS IS WHERE IT GETS GOOD
There is a processing FEE fo $60 for EACH SF97 requested. Customers requiring a Flordia state certificate of title or duplicate state certificate of title will be charged $77.75. GL WILL DETERMINE whether YOUR State requires a state certificate of title or an SF97. Customers must verify the following pertinent information required to complete an SF97 - then it goes to blah blah blah

We have done this - GL said GA required one to give us a title as it is NOT scrap - so where's the GA title being forwarded -

 

[zout]

Now as to FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards) and the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration)

The U.S. Dept of Transportation (second one above) did a study and you can find this from 2010.
The report is:
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS mentioned above) and How they can be benchmarked to Military Vehicles

Benchmarked for those lackiing a dictionary means the Military Vehicles are what the FMVSS used as their prime example that all others were measured off from. This report is 49 pages long.

Also under the Federal Code of Regulations 49 - 571.7 (this is on the internet as well)
(c) Military Vehicles. NO STANDARD applies to a vehicle or item of equuipment for, and sold directly to,the Armed Forces of the United States in conformity with contractual specifications (see the 49 page report) manufactures already meet Federal Specifications and for the Armed Forces to do their job cabs might have to be interchanged - other components - and when changed to a later year vehicle if they fit - they have to meet that years specifications under the NHTSA.

I am looking to find the document that states one state has to accept another states TITLE. I saw it and forgot to save it - I did not think it would turn into this.
Pitbull still on the hunt

 

[zout]

I had it and forgot where I put it - you can check the Federal requirements here:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2009-01-30/pdf/E9-1835.pdf

 

[papabear]

OK folks, I now have a copy of a title from SD and one promised from Missouri. I will ensure all personal data and serial # is redacted prior to use.

I would LOVE to have titles specifically listing BMY/Harsco for any 5ton vehicle in TN, KY, SC, NC, FL and AL. Any other state will help as well.

My intent is simply to show that other states are titling these trucks.

We have a pitbull and a bear on the hunt so sumpin's gonna happen soon!!

 

[zout]

Never disturb a Bear

 

[tigger]

 

[zout]

Seeing how PB is a little slow in the aged years figured I might as well update on the latest.

IF you plan on purchasing anything newer that requires an FMVSS decal on the vehicle in Georgia their standing as of today is that "it was not INTENDED to be a highway use vehicle NOR to carry passengers on the highway" (quote) - therefore
no matter if you have your SF97 & T22B form in hand at the tag office it will not get titled nor registered for what it is, if you try to to it legally.

Do not be misled by GL with the SF97 in hand you can obtain a Georgia title - because you cannot - straight from the horses mouth on both counts - GL and Ga.
This is directly from the Directors office.
It is not an historic vehicle which we own 2 others and one falls into the category of civy life of requiring a FMVSS decal - but - due to the age it falls still under the Historic and therefore they recognize it.

Ya think ya folks in Ga have something to think about when bidding on GL and want to own one in GA - if you want to join the decision making pm either me or PB. So far its just us two trying to get the State of GA to recognize these
and we are not daily driving these to Kroger or the Mall or where ever - I know If I drove mine 6 times a year I would be happy.
that's all for now.
IF you title it legally outside GA and bring the title to GA they will not honor the other States title.

 

[sandcobra164]

Well, I now know why the A2's are selling so low. I was thinking of getting one for those low prices but it seems like a ton of hassle. I guess I could buy one and have it hauled home and wait for this to "get fixed". I'd love to help ya'll's situation as well. Ya'll are both older than me but you're both great mentors. I had trouble registering my first Deuce, I've registered many others and no, I didn't get a title with the deal but I had tags and paperwork to make them legal. I had alot of trouble getting a title for my M1028 CUCV. Can't post how for obvious reasons but it has one. I went to school with one of the ladies in the tag office and she is the prettiest lady in the room!!! So long as my wife isn't there!!!

 

[papabear]

OK, let's not go off the deep end here....yet.

We fired a few rounds to probe the perimeter and it seems the opponent is better prepared than expected.

OK...so that means we need to re-arm and re-fit with some heavier weapons then try again.

I am assembling said armament as we speak.
At the same time, I am going to call in a couple of favors from some folks and access a State Representative and a Senator if possible and prepare a "Bring the Rain" mission if forced into a corner.

Truthfully, I've been very busy lately and a bit under the weather but I'm about ready to prepare to start getting ready to begin to commence a major campaigne.

It takes me awhile to get started, but when I do I usually produce satisfactory results. (Well, unless you ask MB)

Heck...I've been kicked outta better places than Georgia!

 

[swiss]

When did Georgia go communist!??

i am going to open the Rolodex when I get back to our beautiful state at the end of the week.

 

[maccus]

Well PB and Z I think you might consider going PCS to another state. One that is more MV friendly. There are some nice ones out here in the west. PB you might have to unpack your cold weather gear after all. Both of you old troops know darn well you cannot train a rock to act rationally. Hum..........a rock crusher might work however, is that what is coming next?

 

[zout]

I did hear a friend of mine up in Custer installed a 50 amp outdoor power pole for me as a permanent resident I likey that idea. Told him I would work for food - guess I would go hunry and have to resort to eating shrubbery or something (saw that on one of them survival tv shows).

Still workin on the M909 - no big deal on the paperwork stuff yet - nothing but time and patience to over rule gubberment.

 

[papabear]

Well PB and Z I think you might consider going PCS to another state. One that is more MV friendly. There are some nice ones out here in the west. PB you might have to unpack your cold weather gear after all. Both of you old troops know darn well you cannot train a rock to act rationally. Hum..........a rock crusher might work however, is that what is coming next?

Sorry Maccus. After the trip to IN this month my passport is no longer valid!!

My Dad always said... "The best way to get that boy to do something is to tell him it can't be done"!!

We might get whopped but we will go down scrappin!!

 

[maccus]

Yep Zout there is a nice power pole for your use. All I have to do is move my M8109 and you are good to go. Come on up !!!!

 

[Tinwoodsman]

I will see your 50 amps and raise you 50 amps.