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It is in the complaint if you download it and expand it you can read the ordinance number and description.
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Local zoning is targeting my trucks
- Thread starter maa45069
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bprzyw
Well-known member
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- Moscow,Pa USA
Unbelievable! Government for the government not the people! They will have a fight on their hands. Stop removing our rights! Food, fuel, taxes, vehicles and soon our weapons. Pry it from my cold dead hands
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- cincinnati/OH
It is but a hidden property. Nobody can see it from any road. Doesn't change the issue tho.thank you for all of you taking the time to walk me through and counseling.
bprzyw
Well-known member
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- Moscow,Pa USA
Just plant some flowers in them and call it your deer/pest free garden
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- WOBURN. MA.
Your neighbor likes to watch your property and you should respond in kind. Lol
williamh
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- SanDiego Ca.
PPL like that are the reason we can’t have nice things 
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- Indianapolis, Indiana
As mentioned earlier, zoning officials are almost always on a power trip, and see no difference between getting you to comply with the ordinances as written and with their wishes that go a step further. The devil is in the details and you need to be 100% clear on what is and is not in those zoning ordinances. I pulled them up and it does look like they have long standing policies (enacted in 80s and 90s) against parking vehicles on grass, but their section on trucks seems to call out 'Trucks or other commercial vehicles'. To me, if you don't have anything registered or used as a commercial vehicle, it should not apply. I'm guessing you will need legal counsel to force that issue though. I did not see anything in my cursory search of the actual ordinances that talked about military vehicles - that appears to just be the zoning guy's desire.
My thought (not to be construed as legal advice since you already know I'm not a lawyer!) is that with paving a spot to park stuff, fixing whatever is wrong with the shed, and storing some plastic totes indoors you would be compliant. But the letter said you need a building permit for fixing the shed (not sure if that is true or not, may again just be the zoning guy's wishes, it's not the case here where I live) and I am guessing you would need one to pour a parking slab. And I would 100% guarantee you they would hassle you on both at this point.
Good luck dealing with this bunch of jerks! Hopefully you can get past this without a ton of trouble or expense. Just don't go 'Marvin Heemeyer' with the loader, as enticing as that might sound at times.
My thought (not to be construed as legal advice since you already know I'm not a lawyer!) is that with paving a spot to park stuff, fixing whatever is wrong with the shed, and storing some plastic totes indoors you would be compliant. But the letter said you need a building permit for fixing the shed (not sure if that is true or not, may again just be the zoning guy's wishes, it's not the case here where I live) and I am guessing you would need one to pour a parking slab. And I would 100% guarantee you they would hassle you on both at this point.
Good luck dealing with this bunch of jerks! Hopefully you can get past this without a ton of trouble or expense. Just don't go 'Marvin Heemeyer' with the loader, as enticing as that might sound at times.
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Gallon of whiskey and the right woman and you can make your M35 a Brothel....
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Here in michigan "commercial" is considered GVWR of 10,000 and above and many local ordinances consider dual tires commercial
even if not used commercially . I live in the city and they consider 10,000 # or 22 feet commercial , the township next to me adds dual wheels . They are fine with a bobbed deuce with singles but a bobbed deuce with duals is a no go. It's all in the wording.
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- Orlando, FL
There was code referenced on the letter. Look it up and see exactly what it says.
SCSG-G4
PSVB 3003
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Local rules vary. I'm in SC, not in a town or HOA, and I have two deuces parked in my driveway. Most of the neighborhood children and grandchildren (when they are visiting) have had their picture taken behind the steering wheel of one or both of them.
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- Indianapolis, Indiana
Yep, things like that are exactly why we all need to know exactly what the written rules are where we live so we can separate what the rules truly are from what zoning officials wish they were. I only read a few sections of the Fairfield code, not anything from the state of Ohio.
As a side note, the local problematic institution here is the 'recycling committee', given power in the 2009 zoning ordinance. The zoning ordinance declares that they have the power to come on your property at any time to inspect for suspected violations (which I believe is similar to what Wes was fighting in court as the supreme court has ruled against this previously in cases where the alleged violation was not visible from public land). Here they went as far as asking a neighbor what I used my trucks for, while they were making them put up a shelter over a van that didn't run. All of my stuff stored outside ran and looked complete so they never had probable cause to come talk to me. Knowing exactly where the line is allows you to stay the tiniest amount on the safe side of it.
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WE have a "plated and insured " ordinance here or in a building .
I'm actually off to the city council meeting in a little while to remind the new head of inspections
that I know our code of ordinances as well or better than him. But I have known him since he hired in at the city 20 or so years ago ,
he has always been really fair to deal with . But for whatever reason the stress of the job or a power trip , several others I've known as long
has let it go to their head .
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This
Up until a few years ago, I had more code violations than anyone else on my street. And none of the violations were valid. I was fortunate to have a friend that worked in code enforcement. She would shake her head and tell me what the applicable code was and I would inform the errant code enforcement person and the problem would go away. I eventually started doing the research myself. It's not hard, and you would be surprised how often the enforcement people are wrong.
When you read the applicable code(s), make sure you read the definitions related to that particular section of code, the definitions may be (usually are) different in other sections.
Most if not all code enforcement actions come from an AH neighbor complaining, or a real estate agent trying to sell a house in the area. Very few of the enforcement people are wasting time riding around looking for violations. There are plenty of people calling to rat out their neighbors.
Up until a few years ago, I had more code violations than anyone else on my street. And none of the violations were valid. I was fortunate to have a friend that worked in code enforcement. She would shake her head and tell me what the applicable code was and I would inform the errant code enforcement person and the problem would go away. I eventually started doing the research myself. It's not hard, and you would be surprised how often the enforcement people are wrong.
When you read the applicable code(s), make sure you read the definitions related to that particular section of code, the definitions may be (usually are) different in other sections.
SCSG-G4
PSVB 3003
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- Lexington, South Carolina
The deuces on my driveway are plated and insured, but one would have to trespass on the property to see the plates. I'm also a member of the 'Gray Team' that takes care of the yards - mowing, tree cutting, etc. - for the neighborhood widows. Only six of the 42 houses have 'new' people in them, everyone else has been here over 15 years, most over 30 years. One of the new folks got my deuce's help with pulling out a tree stump from his back yard.
I learned that the only way to beat the code people is in a higher court above their little kangaroo environmental courts.
Basically go before their environmental court, jump thru the little hoops, have a trial, lose and then appeal it to a higher court. The circuit Court [or other higher court] takes a year or more to hear the case. It is civil quasi criminal so they don't rush to docket it. The lower court that ruled against you originally can not enforce their ruling on the ordinance while it is under appeal.
In the circuit court, or whatever it may be where you live, generally allows for a jury trial option whereas the environmental court did not.
Jury's are unpredictable and it is ruled on at low lower by preponderance of evidence and not reasonable doubt. But I have learned that even people on a jury don't like power tripping code officials. Regardless of the language in the ordinance.
If you lose at that level you can also appeal to your district or state supreme court. Etc this also takes years BUT it buys you time that they can not enforce the ordinance while it is under appeal.
I've beat the county where I live 3x. Twice in the lower courts regarding trucks and once in federal court, which cost em $45k.
The time from the original violation was written till circuit Court ruled on it was 2yrs and 7months. They appealed to the supreme court and that took another 18 months.
Only advice I can give you is above. They get tired and bored and it really hurts their feelings when you let it go on up the ladder above their kangaroo environmental courts where they kinds make it up as they go.
Basically go before their environmental court, jump thru the little hoops, have a trial, lose and then appeal it to a higher court. The circuit Court [or other higher court] takes a year or more to hear the case. It is civil quasi criminal so they don't rush to docket it. The lower court that ruled against you originally can not enforce their ruling on the ordinance while it is under appeal.
In the circuit court, or whatever it may be where you live, generally allows for a jury trial option whereas the environmental court did not.
Jury's are unpredictable and it is ruled on at low lower by preponderance of evidence and not reasonable doubt. But I have learned that even people on a jury don't like power tripping code officials. Regardless of the language in the ordinance.
If you lose at that level you can also appeal to your district or state supreme court. Etc this also takes years BUT it buys you time that they can not enforce the ordinance while it is under appeal.
I've beat the county where I live 3x. Twice in the lower courts regarding trucks and once in federal court, which cost em $45k.
The time from the original violation was written till circuit Court ruled on it was 2yrs and 7months. They appealed to the supreme court and that took another 18 months.
Only advice I can give you is above. They get tired and bored and it really hurts their feelings when you let it go on up the ladder above their kangaroo environmental courts where they kinds make it up as they go.
ToddJK
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The city or village officials don't care other than if they can respond to a complaint and if they make money or not. Also depends on the individual themselves and how hard they want to play ball.
I haven't had these types of issues, but the Sparta village where I'm at threw a fit because my deuce was off the driveway and on the side of the yard. Can't park vehicles in the yard. Then they told me it cannot be parked in the street. So I extended my driveway using some gravel and separated the driveway from the gravel with yard edging. I parked on it. Then they told me I had to have a permit, submit the new dimensions to them for approval, and that I had to use concrete once approved. They got a swift kick in the pants when I called and talked to the village ordinance guy. I told him I did yard landscaping and it was separated by the edging, not connected to the driveway. Then I read him the enforcement code and then told him there was no code that enforced what people parked on their landscaping and that landscaping according to their code was not considered "the yard" as it was defined by empty property surrounding the home that was grassed or dirt. He back peddled and told me I needed a permit for landscaping and again, I had to find that code and read that too him as landscaping was not building or altering a structure therefore no permit was needed. He brought up other issues that was pointless, such as the sidewalk and how it wasn't rated to hold 14,000 lbs on it, which he was right, but I had to remind him the sidewalk was just as thick as my driveway and the same concrete and it's rated at 3000lbs per square foot or something like that, whether that's true I don't think it is, but the fact that the truck drives on 6 wheels and not one, the side walk was never being over rated in weight capacity and the fact other builders in the area have fully loaded concrete trucks driving over the side walks and they don't vaporize. The guy finally gave up and I haven't heard from them again, but this shows some of them try to go out of their way. Sometimes they are trying to enforce code and if it's explained well enough in code, they have what they need to back up their claim. I hope in Nguyen's case this gets settled in his favor, but unfortunately many of us have had to deal with the BS and the like.
I haven't had these types of issues, but the Sparta village where I'm at threw a fit because my deuce was off the driveway and on the side of the yard. Can't park vehicles in the yard. Then they told me it cannot be parked in the street. So I extended my driveway using some gravel and separated the driveway from the gravel with yard edging. I parked on it. Then they told me I had to have a permit, submit the new dimensions to them for approval, and that I had to use concrete once approved. They got a swift kick in the pants when I called and talked to the village ordinance guy. I told him I did yard landscaping and it was separated by the edging, not connected to the driveway. Then I read him the enforcement code and then told him there was no code that enforced what people parked on their landscaping and that landscaping according to their code was not considered "the yard" as it was defined by empty property surrounding the home that was grassed or dirt. He back peddled and told me I needed a permit for landscaping and again, I had to find that code and read that too him as landscaping was not building or altering a structure therefore no permit was needed. He brought up other issues that was pointless, such as the sidewalk and how it wasn't rated to hold 14,000 lbs on it, which he was right, but I had to remind him the sidewalk was just as thick as my driveway and the same concrete and it's rated at 3000lbs per square foot or something like that, whether that's true I don't think it is, but the fact that the truck drives on 6 wheels and not one, the side walk was never being over rated in weight capacity and the fact other builders in the area have fully loaded concrete trucks driving over the side walks and they don't vaporize. The guy finally gave up and I haven't heard from them again, but this shows some of them try to go out of their way. Sometimes they are trying to enforce code and if it's explained well enough in code, they have what they need to back up their claim. I hope in Nguyen's case this gets settled in his favor, but unfortunately many of us have had to deal with the BS and the like.
Wolfen
Active member
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Watching.
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- Orlando, FL
The sad thing is you are betting your money, and they are betting your money. If you eventually lose, you pay, if they lose, you and your neighbors pay. They don't care because nothing is going to happen to them (they are protected in their government job) and it's not their money. Their manager gave them the authorization to appeal or maybe it's written into the process procedures. Until that changes, you roll the dice. It doesn't matter if you are wrong or right, things can still go against you.
But, if you have the law on your side, you do what you have to do. If you are operating a business, $45K spread over 4 years is just the cost of doing business if things don't go your way. If you win, they pay and don't bother you anymore.
Sad that it works this way, but good to know.
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