Lockout hubs

[ODdave]

Agreed.
Funny thing is nobody has mentioned yet the extra wear on that side, free-wheel hub bearing/bushing & axle shaft end - each one now turning in opposite directions, at 2x close to 500 ≈1000 rpm (!); plus the wear on spindle bushings; U- or CV-joints, internal oil seals... All that can be avoided with ONE PAIR of hubs!
G.[/QUOTE]

Yup, pretty sure I already mentioned that post#80

 

[Dipstick]

I have a set of Ouverson hubs on back order myself. I have a question for Deuce drivers that are experienced in snow. I was kind of looking forward to driving my Deuce to work on a moderately hilly and winding road in snow. I thought I'd engage the front hubs and the transfer case. I would keep my speed down as I usually do in snow. Am I getting from this thread, that it is unsafe to drive a 4wd in 4wd on a snow covered road? I drove several 4wd pickups at 45 mph or more in 4wd during snowstorms on a fifty mile drive home from work for years and never had any problems with skidding and such. I thought a Deuce....mine is bobbed....would be great on a snow covered road in 4wd.

 

[stumps]

I have a set of Ouverson hubs on back order myself. I have a question for Deuce drivers that are experienced in snow. I was kind of looking forward to driving my Deuce to work on a moderately hilly and winding road in snow. I thought I'd engage the front hubs and the transfer case. I would keep my speed down as I usually do in snow. Am I getting from this thread, that it is unsafe to drive a 4wd in 4wd on a snow covered road? I drove several 4wd pickups at 45 mph or more in 4wd during snowstorms on a fifty mile drive home from work for years and never had any problems with skidding and such. I thought a Deuce....mine is bobbed....would be great on a snow covered road in 4wd.

There is a fairly large amount of power consumed in just rotating all of the gears, oil, etc. in the front axle of any 4WD (or 6WD) vehicle. Based on gas mileage considerations, I figure it to be around 28%. If your truck has the front axle disengaged, by way of the transfer case, the road friction still has to push that front axle, and all of its gears, oil, etc.. If there is insufficient road friction, the front wheels will stop turning, and skid. If that happens, you lose your ability to steer the truck.

I don't drive my deuce in such conditions because I don't think it needs the extra salt exposure, but my rule for my 4WD pickup trucks is if it is slippery enough to need the front hubs engaged, stay in 4WD. If it is not slippery enough to need the hubs engaged, keep them disengaged until you must have the extra traction.

Others have discounted my experience, so feel free to take it with a grain of, uhmmm, salt.

-Chuck

 

[patracy]

Since we keep beating a dead horse, I've filed an application to become a dealer for milemarker and warn. I'll see what I can come up with.

 

[trukhead]

I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread, I could keep reading the fresh responses until the .
I am thinking that I might want 4 overson lockouts for my A3 if I were to go across country, 2 on the front axle and 2 on the rear axle. I would remove the trailing drive shaft and let the trailing axle coast until I got to the desert and then reinstall it.

opcorn:

 

[plym49]

I have seen spiders and side gears on cars fail due to lack of lube while at high rpm. (One wheel burnouts on asphalt, dirt, mud, etc). Damage is to the outside bore where the side gear rides in the diff carrier, and to the bore shaft, and back side of the spiders. None of these areas have true bearings.

The main mechanism for distributing lube within the diff is the rotating ring gear. I envision a vitrtual rainstorm of oil at hiway speeds. Without rotation of the ring gear, how is lube supposed to get delivered to the two or three spider gears and both side gears remaining above the oil level?

If the ring gear does not rotate, the side gears will rotate at the same speed, in opposite directions. That means that the axle with the lockout hub is spinning in reverse at the same speed that the lockout hub is spinning forward. The side gears are spinning at the speed proportional to the ratio between the side and spider teeth. What is not spinning is the ring gear, pinion, primary reduction gearset, and drive shaft (all of the parts that do have true bearings). If the ring gear does not turn, only one or two side gears come close to the oil level, everything else is above the oil, and it is not raining oil.

BTW - One of the suggestions from this site for decreasing the incidence of gear oil leaking from the diffs is to run the oil level one knuckle down from the fill plug. This practice at least should not be combined with the one lockout deal, I would think.

That is my "food for thought opinion".

Don't forget that the vehicle is moving. Even without the ring gear spinning, there is plenty of splash from bumps and vibrations. Also, it does not take much lube because there is no load.

Also, ever disassemble a third member that had been sitting for a long time? There is still lube in between the surfaces. Gear oil is sticky.

All of the armchair hypothesizing (that is not a personal attack; it is an observation) cannot take away the from the fact that millions of vehicles have this and none of them have a reputation for spider (or anything) wear in their single-disconnect front axles.

 

[Heath_h49008]

Agreed.
Funny thing is nobody has mentioned yet the extra wear on that side, free-wheel hub bearing/bushing & axle shaft end - each one now turning in opposite directions, at 2x close to 500 ≈1000 rpm (!); plus the wear on spindle bushings; U- or CV-joints, internal oil seals... All that can be avoided with ONE PAIR of hubs!
G.

Yup, pretty sure I already mentioned that post#80[/QUOTE]
And me in #151... at least the point 400-500 rpm at the spiders isn't a great idea absent proper lube.

Oh well, anyone who searches or read this has been informed.

 

[Hoefler]

I put a set of lock outs on my A3. Found it made a difference in overall performance. Steering through corners feels more like an A2 as opposed to an A3 without lockouts. Winter time is when I have noticed the greatest difference. Paid less than 600 bucks for a set and believe its the best initial expenditure for these trucks.
Pete

 

[jesusgatos]

Little bit confused Hoefler. What would account for the differences between the A2 and A3 and the way they each handle turns?

 

[Hoefler]

Not sure why, but did notice my a2 felt like it was on rails compared to my a3. When I put the lockouts on, it seemed to make a difference. Given the running gear is the same, it may be due to a3 tires, weight difference of engine or maybe the automatic transmission. Lifting of the throttle for a corner with automatic is a little different than the manual-weight shift to front with wheels freewheeling may have an haffect. It might be the feel throught the steering wheel too.Now have 395 good years om the a3 with lockouts. Drives nice, handles nice-but not quite as good as a2.
Still prefer to drive the a3 though. Lockouts-don't leave home without them.
Pete

 

[nmwildman013]

A friend and I both have A2s. One has a sprag transfer and one is air shifted. We put lockouts on both a few months ago. The sprag A2 drives noticably better. The air shifted A2 also is different in that it seems less noisy. You also don't feel the tires so much when you turn. They don't cup so bad either. Overall I think they are worth the money. Hubs are the AVMs. We also have an A3 and the difference I feel between the A2 and A3 is that those big tires do jump in the corners at low speed. I find that very annoying. I think lockouts would help that to some degree. We have been talking about trying a set on that truck too.

 

[jesusgatos]

The sprag truck drives better?

 

[klmartin62]

GM and Jeep both used the axle disconnect with good results, but these are not hub locks. They disconnect the "drive" to the steering wheels to make steering easier. Fuel mileage got a slight boost due to lack of "loading" front axle.

Hubs need both sides on steering axles because of friction from axle and u-joint or cv joint in newer applications. That joint creates a lot of resistance. Axle slip collars leave these engaged on both sides, enabling a fairly even drag. Both systems work fine, for what they are for.

 

[nmwildman013]

Yup, made a big difference. Front end isn't trying to lock up all the time and steering is easier.

 

[bones1]

So the final verdict for using one or two lock out hubs on the Front is........................
Then to discuss using them on the center rear omg.

 

[bones1]

I'm going to put a pair on the front first. Then I will look for the best solution for the center rear. I can feel them fighting each other so we will see what effect lockout hubs on the front have with this. Some folks just pull a rear axle and put a front axle cap in it's place on the center rear.

 

[Dipstick]

Hello All,

A pair of Ouverson hubs are on the way for my A2's front axle. I'm really getting them to try and coax a little more efficiency/power out of my White LDT465-1C when on dry roads. I wonder what the impact will be on steering quality? Does anyone know the proper torque spec for the front hub bolts off hand? I think it is in Chapter 14 of a TM. I'll have to try and find it.

Thanks Dipstick

 

[bones1]

Let us know Dipstick

 

[HanksDeuce]

Attached is a copy of the specific TM page that provides the proper torque for the A2 front hubs.

 

[Dipstick]

Hank,
Thanks for the torque spec. I had found it somewhere else stated as 60-80 lbs.-ft. I forget where. I'm going to go with the TM torque specs you provided. Thanks also for telling me about your disc brake conversion. It sounds really interesting. I'd love to see pictures of it and see what it involves. Have you put them up on your thread? I will be sure and tell everyone what I think of the hubs after a test drive. They should arrive today.
Owen