Lockouts on the deuce. Wow big diff.

[adamsoffroadperformance]

Sorry bout the no pics I'll take care of this right now. lol

 

[wehring]

Thanks Adam

I agree. Lock out hubs are great. Any word on the 5 ton hubs?

I had a good laugh with one of the bobbers when I backed it into the shop with the front hubs unlocked. The concrete floor was a bit wet and the ~1" lip at the entrance was enough to hang the front tires and make the rear tires spin in reverse. Pulled forward and hit it again with momentum.

Egg-on-face explanation to a good friend in attendance was futile...

Justin Wehring
979 997 3112

 

[adamsoffroadperformance]

lol He's workin on the 5 tonners just has alot of other things in the works too.

 

[Recovry4x4]

It is difficult for me to put this into words as I've tried so many times. This is all about the rear tandems, I'll touch on the front a little later. Now, as far as spider gears, forget everything you already knew about spiders with a single rear axle. The problem with the deuce (and 5 tons) is that there is no inter axle disconnect. As long as that drive shaft between the tandems is there, both differentials are spinning at the same speed. I'm sure we can all agree on that. Lets assume that the rear most axle remains complete with both axles in place. As we go around turns, the spider gears will alow differentiation between both sides. Going straight, the spiders have virtually no movement (unless a radical difference in tire rollout from side to side). Once we add a second axle in front of that, we add a little bind as we go around corners as the axles don't follow the same arc. Another contributing factor is tire size on this one. So far all still elementary. So, in order to relieve that bind we have to figure out a way to unlock something. Herein comes the single lockout. Since the differentials are open, unlocking one side renders that axle useless as all torque will be sent to the side with the least resistance (side with no axle), of course assuming there is no locking diff. In place of removing an axle, the idea of the single lockout was born. Since both differentials are spinning at the same speed and the rear tires are setting the road speed, with one axle removed, that other tire and axle is maintaining the same axle RPM as the aft axle. That means that the axle gears in both differentials are spinning at the same RPM as the carrier, and if they are, the spider gears will not be moving. It's difficult for me to put it into words but I can guarantee you that the spiders in the unlocked axle will not be spinning at random.

As far as the speed bump incident, I did live that one. I had desplined hubs up front so only one driive axle available to push. If I had the front hubs on, coulda just switched to AWD and drove away.

Now lets cover tire matching while we are at it. Mechanically, this is the best way to match your rear tires. Adjust all tires to same pressure. Measure a rolling circumference of each tire and write it on the tire. Take your longest circumference 2 tires, pair them up and set them aside for one axle (either one) Now take your shortest 2 tires, pair them up and put them aside for install on the same axle as the longest. The remaining 4 tires should be done the same, 2 shortest on one side and 2 tallest on the other side. This will equalize rollout of each axle to the best it can be done mechanically.

 

[Stretch44875]

I don't know how to say this without offending someone. Just trying to set the record straight, so don't be offended.

1. One shaft pulled will not spin the spider gears. Unless you are going around a sharp curve, or spinning out the other rear axle.

2. IF you have the front axle disconnected, desplined caps, or lockouts disengaged, and one rear axle shaft pulled, the truck has very little traction. You can spin the rear tires easy. IF the front axle is working, it gives you plenty of traction in most situations.

3. The best axle to pull a shaft on is the foward rear. The rear most rear axle has slightly better traction going foward.

I think this is one of those things that you just have to figure out. It is hard enough to understand a differantial, much less two working together. If you do some searching, a good explaination has been posted before of how everything works.

 

[MCHoward]

I just attended the get to gether in Augusta KS. Its a little over 190 miles from my home here in Kansas City. With front lockout disengauged, and an axel remove from the left front drive, I had NO problems. That said I was on the high quality Kansas state freeway system. I'd never use this off road. As for the lockout on a drive axel, that would be neet, just can't afford it right now.

 

[MO MV man]

I installed my AVM lockouts yesterday afternoon.
Incredible.

They were so easy to install, I thought for sure I was missing something.
Silly easy.

What a marked improvement in ease of steering and at-speed manners.

It's been a LONG time since I've dropped that kind of money and thought, "Money well spent!".

I suggest if you're interested in lockouts and AVM's are what you want, give Clinton a call (or e-mail) at C&C PRONTO and latch onto a set.
He has THE BEST price going on them and I believe he said it's a limited time/quantity deal.

Thanks again, Clinton!

 

[KaiserM109]

Lockout hubs (for one of the rear axles) just went up on my priority list. Thanks, guys, for the info and recommendations.

 

[davidkroberts]

So i dont think anyone answered directly, We are all in agreement that lockout hubs on the front are great.... no issues there

So if you got a second lockout on the middle axle on just one side would you gain the same benefit as removing the axle or would this cause a problem? Im asking for the simple fact its easier to turn a select hub than it is to replace an axle when you need it. Also is it better to put the select hub on the middle axle for better turning or rear for better traction.? Is this even possible? are the end caps the same between the steer axle and drive axle? Sorry its been awhile since i paid any attention to either.

Yes i know they are sold in pairs but when you have multiple trucks it makes all the difference. Im trying to get away with having three sets for two trucks instead of 4 sets.

 

[Recovry4x4]

So i dont think anyone answered directly, We are all in agreement that lockout hubs on the front are great.... no issues there

So if you got a second lockout on the middle axle on just one side would you gain the same benefit as removing the axle or would this cause a problem? Same benefits .Im asking for the simple fact its easier to turn a select hub than it is to replace an axle when you need it. Also is it better to put the select hub on the middle axle for better turning or rear for better traction.? Put it on the rear, you will need the extra traction. Is this even possible? are the end caps the same between the steer axle and drive axle? Same bolt pattern, yes. Sorry its been awhile since i paid any attention to either.

Yes i know they are sold in pairs but when you have multiple trucks it makes all the difference. Im trying to get away with having three sets for two trucks instead of 4 sets.

Answers in Red

 

[MO MV man]

Ouverson gets $205 for the necessary axle to put a lockout on the rears:
https://store.oemaxle.com/product_info.php?products_id=28

Is there a less expensive one out there, by chance?

 

[Spruce Deuce]

Ok, I hate to stir the pot, but I am curious.

Can axle shafts be removed from the front, or a single lockout hub be installed to achieve a similar experience with the front as what is achieved by doing the same to the forward rear tandem? Complete newbie here... and a penny-pinching one to boot. Just wondering if you could get away with a single pair of lockout hubs.

 

[JDToumanian]

No.... Adding only one to the front would provide no benefit (and may cause accelerated wear?)... There needs to be two in front to get the mass of the diff + drive shaft to stop spinning, and one in the rear to unlock the middle axle.

 

[dabtl]

I just saw this thread. I have lockouts on the front of one of the deuces, more coming from jatonka for the other, and had a dual splined axle and lockout hub on the front rear axle. Riding down a paved street is ok with the front rear axle disengaged. Starting up a hill, moving across dirt or other less than flat asphalt/concrete surface meant a lot of tire spin.

I was very dissatisfied with the front rear lockout arrangement. Your mileage may vary.

 

[rlwm211]

I installed a set of hubs from JATONKA on my deuce. I carry an S280 all the time so my truck is "loaded" going down the road. I also used the spline caps to isolate the front differential and the resiult was a new truck in terms of manners and handling. Mileage is up about 1 mpg but with the LDS and the heavy load that is about what was expected.

In the front end the idea is to remove the wear on the rotating components as they are a PITA to replace and very expensive. Additionally, using one hub on the front end keeps one axle shafts rotating all the time and the U-joints on these are one of the issues you induce wear upon as well as the gears in the differential. With the front drive shaft disengaged and one axle shaft floating you will get some odd rotating in the front driveline by axle shafts, drive shaft and combinations of all threee. This is completely eliminated by adding two hubs.

As to the wet grass issue, I found that with the weight I have no real issues and can normally get around fine even on rougher terrain in 2WD. I have had to engage the hubs to make things easier for me to maneuver but it was not absolutely a requirement. Again, I point to the weight I am carrying all the time.

Everything that I have discovered in adding hubs to my deuce was explained to me beforehand by JATONKA and he was exactly right. As to the spider gears in the forward rear differential rotating excessively I will avoid that discussion for now...

Just my two cents worth

RL

 

[Recovry4x4]

I was very dissatisfied with the front rear lockout arrangement. Your mileage may vary.

No doubt it make minimal traction this way. I had this setup on my deuce tractor and with no weigt in the back it was really slick.

As far as that spider gear deal, people just need go back to physics class so they can understand. I'm no teacher and have a hard time trrying to explain it (over and over).

 

[cjtroutt]

I will be uses it on my M35A2 ex cab bob.

 

[73m819]

Lockout front hubs on a 5t WONT work unless you also have the MWO for the dumping of the air to the trans air valves, the reason is the sprag (over running clutch) will think the rears are SPINNING and engage the front drive, this is also the reason this WILL NOT WORK on a SPRAG deuce

 

[DieselBob]

Man this came back up @ the right time. The wife just asked what I wanted for Christmas this year. I know the answer.

 

[Heavysteven]

Am I the only one that does not like lockout hubs on a deuce? I want 6x6 with out getting out and locking the hubs.