Looking at potentially buying either an M923A2 or 25A2

[CaptainBillUSMC]

Hello! New to the forum here. Don't own a 5-ton yet, but looking at two currently. Retired Marine familiar with 5-tons and had a license for an M998 HMMWV, so I've been around motorpools. When I was enlisted, I was an "A-driver" for 5-tons many times. Been wanting a surplus vehicle for about 10 years but chickened out in the past. But, I'm in an area devastated by Hurricane Helene. Wanting to get involved in a largely citizen-driven relief effort, I know for a fact there is a great need for a vehicle like a military truck to haul supplies.

The two vehicles I'm looking at are a 91' BMY M923A2 and an M925A2. the 25A2 has the hard top and the winch works on it. Both have low miles as one would expect. No title for the truck, Going this week to test drive the 25A2 and ask questions. Its about 2.5 hrs from me here in East Tennessee. The 23A2 is in Pennsylvania, abut 6.5 hrs away in a vehicle that can go above 55 mph. If I were to buy it, I'd want to drive it home, which I know if going to be longer than 6.5 hrs.
Can the group please help me with my questions, so I can make a good decision?

1. What are the pros & cons of owning either vehicle?
2. Are there any common issues with them, mechanical, electrical etc.?
3. Besides being slow, what are the challenges of driving it around town?
4. Are parts easily obtainable?
5. Is this truck capable of medium-grade terrain with mud, stumps, and washed-out roads?
6. Insurance options and cost?
7. What questions should I ask the current owners?

Some pros and cons I see right off the bat, and these are all personal preferences:
-The 923A2 has the bows and cargo cover. And, its cool because its been in 2 movies and is autographed by 2 cast members of The Walking Dead. Its in good shape and the owner has cared well for his truck. It starts and drives as as 5-ton should. He is asking for a reasonable price for it.
-The 925A2 has the hard top, a working winch, and is painted desert tan, which is a personal preference of mine. Has the troop seats installed. It is a lot closer to me and the owner is asking for a reasonable price for it.

-The 923A2 is painted in the woodland camouflage paint scheme, which is not a personal preference of mine, but not a deal breaker. It has a soft top and by definition doesn't have a winch, factory or after-market. And, as I said above, its probably at least an 8hr drive. I think it would be fun, but the vehicle, esp the tires would have to be in top-notch condition. I would want some kind of roadside assistance policy on it before making the trip.

-The 925A2 is a bit of an unknown. The guy who owns it has bought, owned, and sold many military vehicles. He is selling this one because he bought it for someone else to sell to them and that person ended up getting divorced and never took possession of the truck. It isn't listed for sale, I was told to contact him by another guy here in TN who parts out trucks. I haven't seen any photos of it yet, but I am supposed to be getting those soon. I have no idea as to the condition of the truck other than the heater doesn't work, but he has the new heater core for it already. And, it doesn't have the bows or the canvass cover, which, I'd prefer, given what I am using it for, but not a deal breaker.

I know this is a lot and I'd be grateful for any help I can get. There is a great need for trucks to move the numerous donations, and to some remote places. Currently, they are using UTVs, ATVs, and SxSs to move supplies from a larger vehicle to the people, and as you can imagine, each one needs to make numerous trips, since they can't carry much. A 5-ton would help solve this issue. After the rescue effort is complete, there will be a need to move building supplies on roads that have been washed out. Roads are still mostly there, but the black-top is gone. And with some bridges out and the river shifted onto properties, there is also a need to do some fording, below the max ford depth of the truck though, but deeper than what a side-by-side can do.

Thank you!

 

[WillWagner]

I'd do the winch truck. If you are gonna be in ugly terrain, a winch is useful. The 925 has troop seats, so bows are easy to find. They are the same between the M35 and 800 series trucks. A cover , might be tough to find a tan one, but there were some made. There used to be a fair amount floating around for the deuces. I don't know if the covers for the FMTV or LMTV fit the 900 series.

Get an extra winch shear pin if you get the winch truck.

 

[VPed]

First off, Semper Fi and belated Happy Birthday.

Having a winch is a huge plus if you wind up needing it. I have winches on my two pickup trucks and have never used them to pull myself out. I have used one to pull several people out of their own dum-az-dry. The othe winch has never even been unspooled. Having a winch requires preventive maintenance if you expect it to work when you need it.

CTIS is great if it works well but a pain if you have to fix anything. Kits are sold to eliminated the system if inop.

The stock alternators are prone to failing in full-output mode, frying ABS, CTIS, PCB, gauges, etc. It is common for them to overcharge for a minute or three then drop to normal output so you have to watch the voltmeter early after startup. Otherwise, all will appear normal. Alternators are expensive.

Tires of the stock size have become hard to find so condition and date codes are important. Choices are: pay lots for stock replacements, upsize to 16R20, or downsize to 395’s. You lose torque but gain speed with an upsize and the opposite with a downsize. Finding someone to mount-dismount tires can be a challenge so you may have to do the work yourself. An upsized tire will not fit in the stock spare tire location meaning you have to come up with a new place to carry, load, and unload your spare. I just had a flat on Saturday on my M927 and changed it by myself using the stock system.

Driving them is the same as driving any huge vehicle, lots of caution required. I see many drivers do stupid things around semi trucks and they do the same around the big MVs. I added a rear-view camera to the 927 to help with backing.

The transfer case interlocks can be problematic but most will work if you bleed off the air system pressure, shift, then restart and build pressure. The problems can be fixed so it works right but usually won’t leave you stranded.

Hard-tops are a plus and in high demand due to low supply. Soft tops need to be replaced regularly due to sunlight/UV degradation. Early failure point is the thread holding seams together. The windshield anchor point for the top is a plastic piece sewn to the fabric, which is usually the first failure, turning the top into an air scoop.

I have not driven in floodwaters but have off-roaded a lot in the desert. They do great cross-country but you can cut up tires. Fording operations require extensive after-action maintenance, tough to do by yourself.

The dog bone ends need to be inspected for cracks in the rubber. The front axle boots are prone to fail and aftermarket replacements do not last near as long as the originals.

The air dryer needs to be working or problems with the air system will result.

Parts are generally available but shipping costs may be costly on heavy parts. Insurance is available and reasonable but requires research, state specific.

Roadside assistance can be had from many members here if you share details of your roadtrip route and schedule, well in advance, on this website. Many on a vehicle recovery take a follow vehicle and driver, or tow bar a vehicle.

Good luck, have fun, welcome to the disease.

Vick

 

[Superthermal]

First off, Semper Fi and belated Happy Birthday.

Having a winch is a huge plus if you wind up needing it. I have winches on my two pickup trucks and have never used them to pull myself out. I have used one to pull several people out of their own dum-az-dry. The othe winch has never even been unspooled. Having a winch requires preventive maintenance if you expect it to work when you need it.

CTIS is great if it works well but a pain if you have to fix anything. Kits are sold to eliminated the system if inop.

The stock alternators are prone to failing in full-output mode, frying ABS, CTIS, PCB, gauges, etc. It is common for them to overcharge for a minute or three then drop to normal output so you have to watch the voltmeter early after startup. Otherwise, all will appear normal. Alternators are expensive.

Tires of the stock size have become hard to find so condition and date codes are important. Choices are: pay lots for stock replacements, upsize to 16R20, or downsize to 395’s. You lose torque but gain speed with an upsize and the opposite with a downsize. Finding someone to mount-dismount tires can be a challenge so you may have to do the work yourself. An upsized tire will not fit in the stock spare tire location meaning you have to come up with a new place to carry, load, and unload your spare. I just had a flat on Saturday on my M927 and changed it by myself using the stock system.

Driving them is the same as driving any huge vehicle, lots of caution required. I see many drivers do stupid things around semi trucks and they do the same around the big MVs. I added a rear-view camera to the 927 to help with backing.

The transfer case interlocks can be problematic but most will work if you bleed off the air system pressure, shift, then restart and build pressure. The problems can be fixed so it works right but usually won’t leave you stranded.

Hard-tops are a plus and in high demand due to low supply. Soft tops need to be replaced regularly due to sunlight/UV degradation. Early failure point is the thread holding seams together. The windshield anchor point for the top is a plastic piece sewn to the fabric, which is usually the first failure, turning the top into an air scoop.

I have not driven in floodwaters but have off-roaded a lot in the desert. They do great cross-country but you can cut up tires. Fording operations require extensive after-action maintenance, tough to do by yourself.

The dog bone ends need to be inspected for cracks in the rubber. The front axle boots are prone to fail and aftermarket replacements do not last near as long as the originals.

The air dryer needs to be working or problems with the air system will result.

Parts are generally available but shipping costs may be costly on heavy parts. Insurance is available and reasonable but requires research, state specific.

Roadside assistance can be had from many members here if you share details of your roadtrip route and schedule, well in advance, on this website. Many on a vehicle recovery take a follow vehicle and driver, or tow bar a vehicle.

Good luck, have fun, welcome to the disease.

Vick

@VPed Excellent run down. Read his post several times and plan accordingly. I would add:
Buy more tools. Big ones. Bigger jack. Bigger jack stands. Volt meter. Hammer drill and all the sockets. If your planning on driving home right off the bat, check the fluids before rolling out, just in case. I would check the batteries you get the rig with and swap them if not very newish.
Once home, plan on a full check of all the axle bearings, and do a fluid swap just to get new and to ensure quality.
I use State Farm $280 a year. 500 miles. Not a daily driver. Liability only. USAA wouldn't even try to insure my M813.

 

[CaptainBillUSMC]

First off, Semper Fi and belated Happy Birthday.

Having a winch is a huge plus if you wind up needing it. I have winches on my two pickup trucks and have never used them to pull myself out. I have used one to pull several people out of their own dum-az-dry. The othe winch has never even been unspooled. Having a winch requires preventive maintenance if you expect it to work when you need it.

CTIS is great if it works well but a pain if you have to fix anything. Kits are sold to eliminated the system if inop.

The stock alternators are prone to failing in full-output mode, frying ABS, CTIS, PCB, gauges, etc. It is common for them to overcharge for a minute or three then drop to normal output so you have to watch the voltmeter early after startup. Otherwise, all will appear normal. Alternators are expensive.

Tires of the stock size have become hard to find so condition and date codes are important. Choices are: pay lots for stock replacements, upsize to 16R20, or downsize to 395’s. You lose torque but gain speed with an upsize and the opposite with a downsize. Finding someone to mount-dismount tires can be a challenge so you may have to do the work yourself. An upsized tire will not fit in the stock spare tire location meaning you have to come up with a new place to carry, load, and unload your spare. I just had a flat on Saturday on my M927 and changed it by myself using the stock system.

Driving them is the same as driving any huge vehicle, lots of caution required. I see many drivers do stupid things around semi trucks and they do the same around the big MVs. I added a rear-view camera to the 927 to help with backing.

The transfer case interlocks can be problematic but most will work if you bleed off the air system pressure, shift, then restart and build pressure. The problems can be fixed so it works right but usually won’t leave you stranded.

Hard-tops are a plus and in high demand due to low supply. Soft tops need to be replaced regularly due to sunlight/UV degradation. Early failure point is the thread holding seams together. The windshield anchor point for the top is a plastic piece sewn to the fabric, which is usually the first failure, turning the top into an air scoop.

I have not driven in floodwaters but have off-roaded a lot in the desert. They do great cross-country but you can cut up tires. Fording operations require extensive after-action maintenance, tough to do by yourself.

The dog bone ends need to be inspected for cracks in the rubber. The front axle boots are prone to fail and aftermarket replacements do not last near as long as the originals.

The air dryer needs to be working or problems with the air system will result.

Parts are generally available but shipping costs may be costly on heavy parts. Insurance is available and reasonable but requires research, state specific.

Roadside assistance can be had from many members here if you share details of your roadtrip route and schedule, well in advance, on this website. Many on a vehicle recovery take a follow vehicle and driver, or tow bar a vehicle.

Good luck, have fun, welcome to the disease.

Vick

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. All of this is helpful and will be taken into consideration in making my decision. I am leaning more toward the 925A2, for all the reasons you mentioned. On a side note, I have found that dessert canvasss is difficult to find as well, but they can be fabircated, dyed, or just don't care if it matches.

 

[CaptainBillUSMC]

I'd do the winch truck. If you are gonna be in ugly terrain, a winch is useful. The 925 has troop seats, so bows are easy to find. They are the same between the M35 and 800 series trucks. A cover , might be tough to find a tan one, but there were some made. There used to be a fair amount floating around for the deuces. I don't know if the covers for the FMTV or LMTV fit the 900 series.

Get an extra winch shear pin if you get the winch truck.

Thank you! Yes, leaning toward it just need to see photos before making the 2.5 hr trip. Seller seems solid but I'll trust but verify.

 

[CaptainBillUSMC]

First off, Semper Fi and belated Happy Birthday.

Having a winch is a huge plus if you wind up needing it. I have winches on my two pickup trucks and have never used them to pull myself out. I have used one to pull several people out of their own dum-az-dry. The othe winch has never even been unspooled. Having a winch requires preventive maintenance if you expect it to work when you need it.

CTIS is great if it works well but a pain if you have to fix anything. Kits are sold to eliminated the system if inop.

The stock alternators are prone to failing in full-output mode, frying ABS, CTIS, PCB, gauges, etc. It is common for them to overcharge for a minute or three then drop to normal output so you have to watch the voltmeter early after startup. Otherwise, all will appear normal. Alternators are expensive.

Tires of the stock size have become hard to find so condition and date codes are important. Choices are: pay lots for stock replacements, upsize to 16R20, or downsize to 395’s. You lose torque but gain speed with an upsize and the opposite with a downsize. Finding someone to mount-dismount tires can be a challenge so you may have to do the work yourself. An upsized tire will not fit in the stock spare tire location meaning you have to come up with a new place to carry, load, and unload your spare. I just had a flat on Saturday on my M927 and changed it by myself using the stock system.

Driving them is the same as driving any huge vehicle, lots of caution required. I see many drivers do stupid things around semi trucks and they do the same around the big MVs. I added a rear-view camera to the 927 to help with backing.

The transfer case interlocks can be problematic but most will work if you bleed off the air system pressure, shift, then restart and build pressure. The problems can be fixed so it works right but usually won’t leave you stranded.

Hard-tops are a plus and in high demand due to low supply. Soft tops need to be replaced regularly due to sunlight/UV degradation. Early failure point is the thread holding seams together. The windshield anchor point for the top is a plastic piece sewn to the fabric, which is usually the first failure, turning the top into an air scoop.

I have not driven in floodwaters but have off-roaded a lot in the desert. They do great cross-country but you can cut up tires. Fording operations require extensive after-action maintenance, tough to do by yourself.

The dog bone ends need to be inspected for cracks in the rubber. The front axle boots are prone to fail and aftermarket replacements do not last near as long as the originals.

The air dryer needs to be working or problems with the air system will result.

Parts are generally available but shipping costs may be costly on heavy parts. Insurance is available and reasonable but requires research, state specific.

Roadside assistance can be had from many members here if you share details of your roadtrip route and schedule, well in advance, on this website. Many on a vehicle recovery take a follow vehicle and driver, or tow bar a vehicle.

Good luck, have fun, welcome to the disease.

Vick

Semper Fi and Happy Belated Birthday.

 

[Karl kostman]

The world of the 939 series of trucks is is a pretty rewarding one and they are very good reliable trucks having owned on for the last 9 years. First off your NOT going to like this but you want the truth good and bad. Many people will disagree with me on this but I would stay completely away from anything that is A2, way to many problems with the CTIS and way to expensive to fix and maintain. For example a buddy of mine worked at an Armory, he was a lead mechanic there and when I told him I was looking at 5 tons he took me out to their holding yard and said see all those trucks with all the flat tires, they are all A2 trucks and the CTIS is messed up on every one of them. Then he told me the 855 series Cummins is unlike the little turbocharged engine the A2 have it will run virtually forever. I bought a M925A1 and have never looked back! Driving the trucks around town is a non-issue but just remember what your driving and NO your not going to go through any drive up fast food. The fuel mileage on them is acceptable and you will want the winch they can come in very handy on some unforseen occasions. Maintenance needs to be kept up on any of them to insure reliability. Great trucks and if I had it to do over again I would change nothing!

 

[DeMilitarized]

Problems with any ctis system are simply problems with the patience and lack of knowledge of the owner.

 

[VPed]

Problems with the CTIS may be simple and fixable lbut will ruin tires in the process of informing you there is a problem. I would not trust a tire that sat flat for even just a couple of days. This is especially true of the Michelins. While an axle seal leaking air is a simple issue, replacement of said seal can be quite an undertaking if working by yourself. Those seals are not cheap either. The system is complex and contains lots of parts, each a possible failure point. Being able to run down the road replacing the air in a tire with a slow leak is cool though.

I own an A2 with working CTIS and it as great to have. But a leaking air hose from the hub to the wheel cost me a tire. Replacing the hose was easy and only took a few minutes to fix though.

I use my A1 truck quite a bit off-roading in the desert. Airing down and back up have just become habit and don’t take that long.

The A2 engine is well suited for highway driving as it likes rpm for turbo operation while the A1 engine is great for off-road. Torque is available from idle.

Both versions have pros and cons, advocates and detractor, but that is the point of the original post.

 

[Superthermal]

Problems with the CTIS may be simple and fixable lbut will ruin tires in the process of informing you there is a problem. I would not trust a tire that sat flat for even just a couple of days. This is especially true of the Michelins. While an axle seal leaking air is a simple issue, replacement of said seal can be quite an undertaking if working by yourself. Those seals are not cheap either. The system is complex and contains lots of parts, each a possible failure point. Being able to run down the road replacing the air in a tire with a slow leak is cool though.

I own an A2 with working CTIS and it as great to have. But a leaking air hose from the hub to the wheel cost me a tire. Replacing the hose was easy and only took a few minutes to fix though.

I use my A1 truck quite a bit off-roading in the desert. Airing down and back up have just become habit and don’t take that long.

The A2 engine is well suited for highway driving as it likes rpm for turbo operation while the A1 engine is great for off-road. Torque is available from idle.

Both versions have pros and cons, advocates and detractor, but that is the point of the original post.

@VPed Are you using to air up and down the on engine air pump? I have an M813 and have thought to upgrade my air dryer etc... to ensure airing up and down doesn't add any water vapor into my tires. Just curious. I also made a 1 to 4 hose to ensure my 4 rear tires are always at the same pressure to aid in not wearing out my tires prematurely.

 

[VPed]

Yes, I do use truck air for the tires.