low sulphur content diesel fuel question

[nickd]

diesel fuel in the state of Delaware will have lowered levels of sulfur in an attempt to reduce emissions. Will this change in the fuel have any damaging effects on the multi fuel engines? Are there any additives available to replace the sulfur?

 

[ida34]

The only problem will be if the old style fuel is used in a 2007 that is set up to use the low sulfur fuel. I think there will be no problem with use of the fuel in older vehicles. Someone with more knowledge in this area is sure to speak up.

 

[Katch1]

The ulsd diesel fuel will need a top-end and pump lube additive be sure to ask your retailer! And don't ask the kid at the counter have found few who knew anything, ask someone who is definately in the know. From what I have heard most of the companies around here will have some sort of additive to help the older vehicles, but with all the older farm machinery that was a given. Diesel techs tell me to add 10% soy-diesel if I don't know what the fuel co. added, would suffice. The next good question raised just today was the availability of artic diesel this winter, with all the changeovers going on the next question was if all the cold reigons were going to have it all together before the weather cools off enough to have the fuel blends right and if the new mixture will stand up to extreem cold or not. Me I just filled up my barrel with #2 of the old fuel and added the right amount of powerservice to get me through the winter, so good luck and goodnight

 

[WillWagner]

Ca. shouldn't have issues, we have been on ULSD for a while..Thanks CARB! The rest of the country is still on LSD. When the switch was made to LSD from "the old stuff" there were minimal problems seen..at my place, There's still pumps running around that are 20 yrs old and don't leak. The o-ring materials were the problem. I don't think there's going to be a problem because these were designed to run on other than diesel, gas has less lubricity than LSD or ULSD, but here's a link to a Diesel Progress mag article,
http://www.ccar-greenlink.org/othernews/Ultra%20Low%20Sulfur%20Diesel.pdf#search='effects%20ULSD%20fuel%20in%20older%20engines'

 

[houdel]

Actually, uls diesel has a lubricity spec, which low sulpher or any other diesel fuel never had. The lube pump additive is included in the fuel by the supplier. I lost the web sites, but if you Google for ULS Diesel there is a ton of info out there.

 

[ah1955]

An other web site to check out info is FPPF's web site.The trucking co. that I work for has already had problems and to try and nip this in to bud we have started to treat our fuel at ever fill up becouse the dist. are only going to do as little as they have to and that is not much.The higher water and lower lube are a problem, plus the shorter storage life.
Our fleet uses on average of 90 to 100 thousand gal. a month bought in different parts of the country and not to sound like a plug but we are using FPPF product, its not cheap but to date this looks like a good ansewer.

 

[houdel]

I'd suggest filtering your waste drain oil and add a quart or two of the filtered drain oil at each fill-up. That should solve any lubricity problems.

 

[ken]

I use lucas fuel treatment in my regular diesels. I run enough used motor oil in the multifuels to cover any lube problems. Texas has already made the switch to ULSD. You can easily tell. The fuel is yellow instead of green. The ULSD is a good thing for your turbo. It leaves a lot less deposits on the turbine and nozzle ring. Although the refiners tell us they are relpacing the lubes lost from the sulfur, Ask yourself this. Have they ever lied to you before? And, are you willing to bet your IP and the price of relpacing/ overhauling it on what they tell you? I worked in a refinery for 7 years before i got this job. I know the things they say and do are not always the same. I'll contue to add lube to mine.

 

[DrFoster]

I've looked into this subject this morning, because I'm interested in the details too. Here is the stuff I dug up:

ULSD has an added lube "rating" but it seems to be a "drier" fuel than LSD, which means it does not (or should not) lube as well as the old stuff, but it is not appearing to be harmful to the internals, as I have about 2500 miles now on the new ultra low and I have seen not a bit of driving difference, fuel seepage at seals, or additional build up on the freshly-cleaned turbines. Will it need an additive? Not as far as I can see, because it is simply a "cleaner" fuel and lube, leaving less deposits, not reduced protection.

It appears, however, to NOT be good for the new engines MAINLY because of the emissions systems, and honestly, I cannot find another reason why it would hurt a diesel motor of any age, again, besides the emissions systems of new trucks made after CY 09-05 or so.
EDIT: "hurting" applies to using the OLD fuels in the NEW engines, not the other way around.

That's all I know so far, I'll report anything else as I dig around this morning.

 

[DrFoster]

Likewise, if anyone can get me a chemical breakdown of the fuel molecules of the new and old ones, I'd be happy to look into that - unles I find one here on the web.

 

[Rattlehead]

The ULSD is required for 2007.5 diesel trucks (built sometime after January 2007), because of the Diesel Particulate Filters that will now be required. The "high" sulfur in LSF will quickly ruin the Diesel Oxidation Catalyst AND the Diesel Particulate Filter.

go to www.clean-diesel.org for more info on the fuel.

 

[wallew]

I use lucas fuel treatment in my regular diesels. I run enough used motor oil in the multifuels to cover any lube problems. Texas has already made the switch to ULSD. You can easily tell. The fuel is yellow instead of green. The ULSD is a good thing for your turbo. It leaves a lot less deposits on the turbine and nozzle ring. Although the refiners tell us they are relpacing the lubes lost from the sulfur, Ask yourself this. Have they ever lied to you before? And, are you willing to bet your IP and the price of relpacing/ overhauling it on what they tell you? I worked in a refinery for 7 years before i got this job. I know the things they say and do are not always the same. I'll contue to add lube to mine.

Ken,
I concur with your conclusions. Better safe than sorry. Plus, we are all driving 20+ year old vehicles, some of which are 50+ year old designs in their parts, particularly the engine and the turbo.

Which means to me that these are extremely stout designs. How many 'NEW' trucks do you see lasting 20+ years? My (now Dr. Fosters) deuce was an early sixty. That makes it an easy 40 year old truck. How many 40 year old civvy trucks do you see still on the road and 'doing their thing' as they were designed to do? Not many, that's for sure.

This new fuel will be just another hurdle some of us will have to figure out a way around it. Just like when they introduced unleaded fuel into the automotive field. MPG dropped, as did HP. But now, 20+ years later you find all sorts of vehicles skating the thin edge of automotive development with vehicles that get mega mpg AND have mega HP!

So, it's yet another stumbling block thrown in our path. Nothing us resourceful people won't be able to overcome. They keep tryin to clean the air coming out of the vehicles that we drive.

Just wait until they get 'hydrogen fuel cell' vehicles on the road in huge numbers. Then the price of any other fuel should drop like a stone, because we will be using a fuel that will be relagated to the 'hobbyist' class. It should prove interesting as to what all the oil companies are going to do with all those refineries once hydrogen takes over. And mark my words, not only is hydrogen DEFINATELY going to be the next fuel of choice, but expect some common Joe experimenting in his garage to come up with a way to derive the proper hydrogen out of the atmosphere. And all of a sudden, the oil companies will be cut out of the loop. You heard it here first.

jim

 

[ken]

Does anyone know If ULSD has the same BTU's per gallon?

 

[G744]

Lots of talk about the fuel, little about the truck. Multifuel engine injection systems have hardened plungers and other wear surfaces to begin with, a requirement for running arctic grade fuels and gasoline. It couldn't care less about the low sulpher fuels being sold now.

A lot of press is about now as most commercial engines DON'T have those parts internal.

Don't hold your breath, but I'll someday debut my cold-fusion Sterling turbine retrofit. Sealed for life, has a drive flange for the output and a throttle lever for speed. Sorta looks like a big electric motor without any wires. Or fuel...

dg

 

[wallew]

G744,
SIGN ME UP. That's EXACTLY what I want in my larger trucks. I'll even be a beta tester if you want. That way we can BLOW UP TWO TRUCKS instead of just yours...

jim

 

[blisters13]

I saw this and it seems believable (3rd post, by "bugman"):

http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f33/what-add-fuel-lubrication-256769/

 

[sandcobra164]

Posts concerning the "lubricity" of ULSD are why I keep running WMO in my Deuce and 2 stroke oil in my CUCV. You dug up an old thread but I feel it is relevant. In my CUCV that just passed 5,000 original miles, she will drop a cylinder due to an injector not firing if I only run pump Diesel and do not add additives. The Deuce never seemed to care if it was on USLD and never gave an issue but it's now on straight WMO since I get it for free and it was designed to run on the stuff.

 

[sandcobra164]

and I posted USLD rather than ULSD but I'm sure everone eyed past that little keystroke mistake.

 

[Troll1216]

I throw in a QT of marvel mistery oil and a QT of two cycle oil when I fill up. No issues with the multi-fuel. I did have some algae bloom in my tank. It had been sitting for almost a year in the FL sun. Thank god I did a spin on primary conversion. I pumped the tank out, ran it through a 10 micron filter, and then put it back into the tank. I added 2 PTs of CRC Diesel Bio-Con.

Ill let you know how it did.

 

[bsorcs]

So how'd it do?