M1008 6" lift

[KAISERM715]

I am entertaining the idea of lifting my 86 CUCV

I have reasonable pricing on the 6" Rough Country system, with a Dana 60 steering block, front springs, rear block, brake line relocates and shocks.

I guess my question is does anyone have experience with this lift (Pt.#251.20) from Rough Country? Front Drive Shaft needs to be extended? It comes with "brake line relocates" but should one consider new longer brake lines?

I was looking at the rear shackle drop from ORD but this kit is way more accessible where I live as far as delivery goes.

I originally wanted the 4" for simplicity but this kit is in stock any close by. I figure I will run the 36/12.5r16.5 Hummer tires which are closer to a 34.

Any thoughts or experience would be welcomed! Cheers!

 

[Cucvnut]

Few things,

The 36 inch tall bias ply's tires are junk.
I would go with cross over steering with that tall of a lift, the stock push pull steering is horrible.
do not lower your transfer case, get a longer front drive shaft made, your rear should be ok or go with a longer yolk.
I would go with the rear shackle flip, blocks will work but they make your truck ride rough and give you axle wrap. I had blocks once i hated it. I run the ORD shackle flip on my current truck.
ORD and WFO both sell longer brake line kits, I went with relocates on my first truck i hated it, I went with long steel braided lines on my current truck.
The springs from rough country are well rough. If you can stand it run em or get a better spring. shocks are the same way.


Im sure others will chime in with things i forgot or more ideas.

 

[KAISERM715]

Thanks for the info. I kinda agree on the 36's. Have run off 2 sets on my old Ford F-250 and never liked the flat spots every time you drove it. Do you think the traction sucks or the bias ply sucks? Good info on the t-case drop, thx! I agree on the axle wrap with the blocks ..... Don't much care about the ride as this is a farm truck and not my daily driver. I think maybe BDS should have a spring that would fit the front .... Just need to find a part number somehow. I will definitely order the brake lines, looked on the Rough Country website and they actually recommend longer brake lines if you read all the fine print. How does the cross over steering work? I will have to see what their price is on that. What do you think about drop pitman arm v.s. Steering block riser?? More I read, seems like the ORD shackle flip is definitely the preference for most. Think they still add a 2" rear block for the 6" kit.

 

[Rustyshackelford]

A 2'' block combined with a shackle flip is better than a 6'' block! Anything from ORD or BDS will be better than Rough Country. I did a 4'' lift on my 1009 from ORD and everything was/is great, the truck drives and handles awesome on and off road. You can call ORD and speak to one of the designers on the phone, that would give you the opportunity to ask them some of these questions. Thats what I did. The only thing I ended up needing that they didn't think of was new U-bolts for the springs (not their fault) Mine had rusted.

 

[sschaefer3]

I have a 4" ORD and 37" MT/R's. My only comment is that the thing is hard to get into. You have to do a little jump. So 6" would be kind of a pain to get in and out of on 37's on a daily basis.

 

[KAISERM715]

Does anybody know for sure if a standard lift (no zero rate) with just the front 6" spring pack will require a longer front driveshaft? All the reading I have done is 50/50 on this topic. I am thinking again more tough country 6" front spring pack. I gather with the ORD 6" front spring pack and a zero rate you do need to lengthen due to the 1" zero rate moving the axle fwd 1" ..... But then you have 7" lift? Too much for my application

 

[KAISERM715]

Did you do the HD front shackles and rear "super shackles" or keep the stock OEM shackles?

 

[goldneagle]

I have a 4" ORD and 37" MT/R's. My only comment is that the thing is hard to get into. You have to do a little jump. So 6" would be kind of a pain to get in and out of on 37's on a daily basis.

I installed an aluminum step on mine. I got them in pairs from Pep Boys and they were inexpensive. My truck too has a 4" lift on 37x12.50R16.5 MT tires mounted to HMMWV rims. I can't even get in the cab without the step! Still need to get the other one on the passenger side done. My friend Don (skinny guy) could not get into the cab without it. With 6" lift you may need an elevator to get in.

 

[Cucvnut]

I had a 6 inch lift on my old suburban, i did not need a longer drive shaft but i was worried it would fall apart if i flexed two much. also if you move your front axle forward one inch so you dont hit the rear wheel well you will need a longer drive shaft.

here is my build thread http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?54154-My-cucv-lift

Cross over steering helps you so much.
https://www.wfoconcepts.com/pr/Dana...ing-Kit-with-Straight-Draglink/3163/3948/4613


I used these front u bolts and plates
https://www.wfoconcepts.com/pr/Chevy-Dana-60-Front-U-Bolt-Kit/3208/3612/3238

Flipped my rear u bolts up.
https://www.wfoconcepts.com/pr/U-Bolt-Flip-Kit-For-3-375-Dia-Axle-Tube-14-Bolt/3208/3612/4282

Replaced my stock front spring rear shackles with these
https://www.wfoconcepts.com/pr/5-Shackle-Kit/3203/3459/3661

 

[Cucvnut]

Does anybody know for sure if a standard lift (no zero rate) with just the front 6" spring pack will require a longer front driveshaft? All the reading I have done is 50/50 on this topic. I am thinking again more tough country 6" front spring pack. I gather with the ORD 6" front spring pack and a zero rate you do need to lengthen due to the 1" zero rate moving the axle fwd 1" ..... But then you have 7" lift? Too much for my application

I went with a 4 inch spring zero rate in the front axle dont forget your spring perches on the 60 are higher than on a 10 bolt axle
for the rear I used my stock hangers ORD 1 ton shackle flip (because wfo did not make them and I did not know about diy4x then) and stock ride height suburban spring and a zero rate. I have between 5 and 6 of lift all the way around.

 

[KAISERM715]

HEY CUCVNUT - thanks for the info!

Did you by chance have to lengthen your front shaft? Did you have to grind any of the front CV housing to accommodate u-joint spin with the increased angle?? I have read with the ORD rear drop you may need to re-position the angle of the rear axle to avoid vibration or does the zero rate do this?

Cheers ..... sorry about all the questions!!

 

[Rustyshackelford]

With my shackle flip (1009) I had to shim the rear diff back DOWN to relieve the vibration.

 

[Chaski]

Your rear springs are 56"
Soooo. 56"X 2 X pi = 352" If you were to rotate your rear leaf spring around the front eyelet and put a pen in the rear eyelet you would draw a 112" diameter circle that has a circumference of 352" Since there are 360 degrees in a circle we can figure out that for every inch of eye movement on one end of the spring you will change your pinion angle by nearly one degree (close enough).

2.5" shackle flip moves the rear eye of the spring down 5"....... this tilts your pinion up 5 degrees.
4" shackle flip moves the rear eye of the spring down 8"....... this tilts your pinion up 8 degrees.

I have had good luck using a 3 degree shim on my 2.5" shackle flip, so I am still about 2 degrees higher up than stock. Another thing is that we are talking about some pretty large shims here, and I chose to take a zero rate block to a milling machine and make it into a giant bolt on shim.

I only have my rig lifted about 3", and I still have the stock steering draglink. It works ok, but if you are going 6" you should really spend the money to go crossover. My opinion of crossover is that if you plan on highway driving you should install a panhard rod, or hydraulic assist. Without one or the other you can get some weird death wobble (3/4 and 1 ton dodge pickups are notorious for this once their panhard rod wears out). IMHO if you go crossover you should do one or the other to lock your steering down.

 

[KAISERM715]

I installed an aluminum step on mine. I got them in pairs from Pep Boys and they were inexpensive. My truck too has a 4" lift on 37x12.50R16.5 MT tires mounted to HMMWV rims. I can't even get in the cab without the step! Still need to get the other one on the passenger side done. My friend Don (skinny guy) could not get into the cab without it. With 6" lift you may need an elevator to get in.

Cummon ...... You guys are either "little people" or dating yourselves!! I'm on the front side of 40 and can still jump up into most rigs!!

Mind you, steps are handy.

 

[KAISERM715]

Your rear springs are 56"
Soooo. 56"X 2 X pi = 352" If you were to rotate your rear leaf spring around the front eyelet and put a pen in the rear eyelet you would draw a 112" diameter circle that has a circumference of 352" Since there are 360 degrees in a circle we can figure out that for every inch of eye movement on one end of the spring you will change your pinion angle by nearly one degree (close enough).

2.5" shackle flip moves the rear eye of the spring down 5"....... this tilts your pinion up 5 degrees.
4" shackle flip moves the rear eye of the spring down 8"....... this tilts your pinion up 8 degrees.

I have had good luck using a 3 degree shim on my 2.5" shackle flip, so I am still about 2 degrees higher up than stock. Another thing is that we are talking about some pretty large shims here, and I chose to take a zero rate block to a milling machine and make it into a giant bolt on shim.

I only have my rig lifted about 3", and I still have the stock steering draglink. It works ok, but if you are going 6" you should really spend the money to go crossover. My opinion of crossover is that if you plan on highway driving you should install a panhard rod, or hydraulic assist. Without one or the other you can get some weird death wobble (3/4 and 1 ton dodge pickups are notorious for this once their panhard rod wears out). IMHO if you go crossover you should do one or the other to lock your steering down.

Fantastic information! 8 degrees is a lot .... I've never looked at it that way. I think the biggest shim I have ever used was 4 degrees and that was on a pretty big lift with blocks and leaves combined. I had a 2001 Dodge Ram 24 valve normal cab with the 7" long arm kit and you wanna talk "death wobble" !! Even after the front frame brace/steering bearing installed, it was crazy.

 

[Cucvnut]

I used a 3 degree shim on my rear axle. A panhard wont fix DW, if you have DW you need to rebuild your king pins. some people claim a panhard will fix bump steer but i have yet to see that. I run hydro assist on my truck. I did go with a longer front drive shaft, i did not have to grind anything on mine.

 

[KAISERM715]

Well I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the 6" Rough Country kit today with steering lift block, 4" rear block, front springs, new 4" over factory brake lines, and el-cheapo shocks and rear add a leaf for 6ish.

...... I know, I know. Rear blocks suck but I really got a good price on the kit.

im gonna see how it rides and watch the axle wrap, and maybe upgrade down the road to the shackle flip from ORD or just build a custom traction bar off the top of that 14 bolt rear end. Crossover steering too, but that kit ain't cheap!!

ive got some 36" bias tires I have had for a while so I don't have to go out and take a beating buying brand new rubber and wheels, and got some nice 16.5 re-centred hummer wheels from Boyce. Not bad once warm. Really warm.

i guess the cons were trimming on the 4", shims and vibes on the 14 bolt rotation from reverse shackle, and I can deal with rebuilding a front shaft. Wanted to make it worth my while with the 4.56:1 as I can run 235/85 factory height but don't get anywhere.

Its a a farm truck! Lol

i will try and take some hub centre measurements and before and after to try and contribute any info I can to this site and thank you to everyone for your info and posts!

 

[Cucvnut]

The blocks should be shimmed.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Nothing wrong with rear blocks as long as you're aware of their limitations. In this days before shackle flips were the norm, we ran a traction bar on top of the leaf pack to the front of the spring. Really helped axle wrap if the mount on the spring was tall enough. Ride characteristics weren't all that different going down the road.

 

[Chaski]

Good to hear about the lift, but once you scratch up some money you should really think about doing crossover and a shackle flip.

I used a 3 degree shim on my rear axle. A panhard wont fix DW, if you have DW you need to rebuild your king pins. some people claim a panhard will fix bump steer but i have yet to see that. I run hydro assist on my truck. I did go with a longer front drive shaft, i did not have to grind anything on mine.

I agree that kingpins are a cause of death wobble. But here is my explanation of how crossover can cause death wobble. 1) All OEM crossover steering systems (Dodge & Ford) on anything from the 90's and newer use a panhard rod on the front axle, with or without leaf springs. With crossover your link is from your pitman to the passenger side knuckle. When your frame and body deflects to the passenger side (in comparison to your axle) it pushes on the drag link and steers your knuckles slightly to the right, when your frame and body deflects to the drivers side it pulls on the drag link and steers your knuckles slightly to the left. Depending on how tall your springs are, how mushy the bushings are and how fast you are going you can get a "death wobble" going where your cab and frame deflect right then it steers right, swinging your body and frame to the left, causing you to steer left, and vise versa as you go down the freeway wondering if you should have bought life insurance. If it is a mostly street rig a panhard rod is an economical way to make sure this never happens, as it keeps the body and frame from deflecting in relation to the axle. The other way to go about it is hydraulic assist. The neat thing about hydraulic assist is that you have "super" power steering, and when you don't give the steering wheel input to the left or right the hydraulic system to the cylinder on the tie rod is closed, locking the steering down.

IMHO if you go crossover on a big lift you should run a panhard rod or hydraulic assist.