M1008 Wont Start/Need Some Help

[Jamesilondon]

Afternoon everyone! I'll start by saying that I don't know much about diesels, but have worked on vehicles for a few years now and think I understand the basics fairly well. My brother picked up his 1984 M1008 back about six months ago and since it has been a great vehicle. The guys he got it from had already done some fixer upper work to it (mostly cosmetic and cleaning) and was pretty much all stock and unmolested as far as we could tell. Were all about upgrades and repairs so when it ran out of diesel one day ( fuel gauge didn't work and didn't know about it till it was too late) we decided to go ahead and do some replacements and upgrades. All the belts were fairly worn so we replaced them along with the Dog head starter relay upgrade, new glow plug relay, glow plugs and a voltmeter that replaced the old one that didn't work. The typical wires and grounds were an issue as well so my brother spent several hours cleaning grounds and replacing some wires and end connections as well as battery cables. All in all most of what we replaced needed to be changed out and once we bled the fuel lines and filter and replaced the gauge and sending unit, she cranked and ran like a champ. She did this great for about three more months until one day..dun dun dun dun........she quit.

Details: Drove truck and ran fine and everything was normal. Come home and park truck to gather fishing gear, come back 30 minutes later, glow plug relay sounds, wait light goes off, turn the key and all I get is a loud click (A single click, not multiple clicks like starter solenoid) then nothing. All power is gone. No lights, horn, dash lights or anything. So obviously check batteries, check grounds from batteries, make sure there isn't anything pouring out the side of the block but everything seems normal. Batteries test out good with 12 or so volts individually and 24 volts at the back and buss bars. Started checking for power after that from the Buss Bar, to the Junction Block, then at the Glow Plug relay. Everything seemed normal (to me anyways) so I started looking at Steel Soldiers and got kind of good at searching for fuseable links that might be burned out or checking for burned wires and burn marks because it just seemed like it was absolutely an electrical problem. I also noticed that both alternator belts and the drive belt were loose. We tightened them properly when we installed them, but could this be a cause of an issue with the truck?


This has been about four weeks ago and since I'm in school I don't have much time to work on it. So far, I have changed the Dog Head Starter relay since it was still under warranty from NAPA ( I said what the **** it cant hurt), I have changed the Ignition switch on the steering shaft because I couldn't get any readings of any kind off of it with a multimeter, and I went ahead and replaced some ground wires and cables with new stock I had laying around the shop. I made a break through when I pulled and replaced some spades from the engine side fuse block. Of course that's where I lost my power readings when I was tracing it through the system so I decided all that old dielectric grease and gummed up mess inside the fuse block was interrupting some things. 45 toothpicks, 15 Q Tips and some electric parts cleaner later I had the whole deal ready to go back in and NOTHING! It still didn't work, but somewhere in the course of cleaning all that again and replacing the spades on the ends of some corroded wires inside the fuse block I finally restored power to the vehicle accessories and the dash lights.

So I went to start her and the glow plug relay sounded, the wait light came on and went off while GEN 1 and GEN 2 with Oil Light came on and stayed lit. Then turn the key and it doesn't do anything this time either. All lights except the GEN 2 go off and the Parking Brake and Coolant light come on and stay on with the key held in start position. So I began doing the "Vehicle will not start, no audible sound from starter solenoid" diagnostics from the TM. So far I am stumped. The only thing I could seem to find from the diagnostics section of the TM basically has led me to assume that their is a problem with the purple wire from Starter Solenoid to Fuse panel to Starter Relay. Before I start digging out 10 feet of wire from all over this thing looking for a fuseable link or burned end or something, I just need some feedback.


PS: I already pulled the starter and jumped the posts and she spins with a vengeance. Plus it worked fine before. Last note as well; I have read in posts that when the key is engaged to start the vehicle, some people hear the Starter relay engage; I have listened several times and never can hear the relay engage. ???????

 

[Jamesilondon]

Oh and thanks in advance for any help or advice from similar problems anyone has had.

 

[Mainsail]

Come home and park truck ...30 minutes later, glow plug relay sounds, wait light goes off...

The wait light should not be coming on when the engine is already warmed up from running.

Mine will sometimes click (or thump) loudly when I hit the starter; I can tell it's drawing mega-power and it acts like the starter is jammed on the flywheel and not turning. I immediately rotate the key back to off and try again and it spools the engine just fine every time. It only does it a few times a year so I'm not too concerned.

When you turned the key and it clicked, how long did you hold that position?

Have the batteries load tested.

 

[cucvrus]

Last note as well; I have read in posts that when the key is engaged to start the vehicle, some people hear the Starter relay engage; I have listened several times and never can hear the relay engage. ???????

I am with you on that. I have driven them for over 30 years and never heard a starter relay engage either. I have great hearing so not sure what they are hearing. I hear crickets at 85 MPH in a M1008. I also hear the glow plug relay cycling in and out but no thuds and snaps of starter relays. Must be a magic thing I am missing. I don't believe in magic. Have a great day. Good luck with your new toy. I hope it serves you well. My advice. If it's NOT broke don't fix it. You don't need to redesign the CUCV to make it reliable. It was built 30 years ago so it must have been pretty reliable to get this far along. I see many vehicles less then half as old in the salvage yards and on crush piles. Go figure. Have a great day. My guess is the starter has gone bad.

 

[mikey]

I know your batteries tested fine with a mm, but you should try fresh known good batteries or have these load tested. My money is on the batteries.

Also, some people say it's common for you to have to tighten the belts every three to six months on a CUCV. I put new belts on my 09 in January and haven't had to tighten them yet, but I've only owned it since then. Perhaps more experienced owners can chime in on whether the belts loosening over time is normal.

Mikey

 

[Jamesilondon]

Yea I thought the same and neglected to post that in the original thread. I had them load tested and they are good to go according to my local NAPA store. I'm figuring a starter problem but not with it or the solenoid, but more along the lines of a bad wire or ground from there.

 

[998Junkie]

Not sure but, I'll always go with a bad battery, even if they tested individually fine. It's a loud click and then everything is dead? If lights are on, they go dead?


Re-read...fuses, perhaps bad ignition switch? 24V to the starter relay? If you go to start, is there 12 V at the relay?

 

[Jamesilondon]

I'll try some other batteries from my other vehicles and see if that does anything

 

[cucvrus]

I found that if I drive a truck that has the resistors still hooked up that the belts squeal less or not at all because the power load to the glow plugs is drawn equally from both batteries. If you do the bypass you are drawing all the power from the front battery. Thus the left alternator is taking all the load to recharge the front battery after a cold start. That is my opinion and experience. Do as you wish. I am just sharing that to help out. Take it or leave it. It works in all of my CUCV's. Good Luck have a great day. And when I do get trucks that have them bypassed and eliminated I hook everything back up as the were designed and most times the starting and squeling issues go away.

 

[dougco1]

I'll try some other batteries from my other vehicles and see if that does anything

Your symptoms sounded just the same way mine did. I had 12+ volts at both batteries so thought all was good there. After spending most of the day tearing the blazer apart and checking everything, I decided to got the batteries load tested and it turned out to be a bad cell in the front battery. I put 2 new group 31s in and all is fine now. Constellation prize is that I learned a lot more about my M-1009 and how it all works.

 

[royalflush55]

If you are not getting any reading of current at the ignition switch you have a failure somewhere between the 12 volt diamond on the firewall and the ignition switch. Fusible link or lost connection where you have already cleaned harness passing thru firewall or a break in the wire somewhere. This wire should be hot all the time to ignition switch. I have had ignition switches wear out on high mileage vehicles also. I always use an AC DELCO ignition switch for the replacement! The switch also has to be adjusted properly with the rod that connects to the key cylinder.

 

[Jamesilondon]

Yea the resistors were bypassed and taken out completely but we still have everything. It's been raining heavy for about six hours now and the truck is outside so as soon as it quits I'll try some of those other batteries. And as far as the ignition switch goes, the old one didn't have any juice coming through it so I got the other one from NAPA and put it in and when I restored power to the dash I tested the two red (hot) leads from each plug on back of switch and both read in the neighborhood of 12 volts.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Yea the resistors were bypassed and taken out completely but we still have everything.

The resistor bypass, in theory, should not have anything to do with power to the ignition switch.

Do you have 12v to the rest of the truck? Lights, etc?

 

[Jamesilondon]

Havnt tried measuring voltage but the lights and turn signals, brake lights, horn all that stuff works fine.

 

[Jamesilondon]

So havnt had much time to work on the truck lately but did pull the purple neutral wire from the starter solenoid and traced it to the fuse panel where it was severely corroded. So chopped it and put a new space end on it and secured it back in the fuse panel on the engine side of the firewall and blam!! No power to anything again. So my main issue from the start has been the fuse panel not seating properly for some reason and therefore not sending power through to the dash and accessories. I'm starting to think I should replace the whole side of the harness and fuse panel and just tie everything together. What do you guys think????

 

[cucvrus]

Tough call over the internet. Could be a simple burnt fusible link to a bad ground or loose connection. Very hard to help with out know what has been hacked into or messed with. Keep looking at all the fusible link wires.I am leaning that way. There are several under the 24 volt buss bar under the hood on the right side of the firewall that are critical. Good luck. Post some pictures that may help. Can't hurt.

 

[Jamesilondon]

Thanks for the advice. I'll see if I can't post some pictures and still working on getting some batteries together to swap in and see if that's an issue