m1009 Died suddenly

[scoutdoors1000]

I have been doing a lot of reading and wanted to make sure I was thinking correct before I start to tear into something that is expensive.

I was driving my m1009 down the interstate the other day after having driven aprx 80 miles over the past year. It started up like it usually does....SLOW HARD start with 3 crank cycles of about 10 seconds with acellerator half way or all the way down and then fluctuating back and forth when it is starting to kick over. IT cranked and ran. Temps have been in the 50's at night. I noticed it was funny that it did not go into high idle but figured I heated the block enough. I, this time, also let it sit a little (maybe 1 min) before driving. Usually I start it up and sit for about 5 seconds then put it in drive and let it go at idle speed till it drops out of high idle.

I was up and running and switched over to my Waste oil system which runs on a different fuel filter but common fuel pump. It was running a little quieter than when on diesel which is usual. On the interstate the vehicle just cut off suddenly like someone threw a switch. This has never happened before. While on waste oil, if the system fails it fails to diesel. I turned the key off, threw it into neutral, and then reset my waste oil system. Still while rolling I attempted to restart the motor on diesel. No go. Crank crank crank and did not turn over. No sputter. Not sure if I was getting smoke or not out the back. I dumped a little diesel down the carb and got it to sputter like it was trying to turn over but mainly cranking only. I then noted smoke out the tail pipe (like usual on a start up) and some comming out the air intake which I have never noted before. I cannot say that I have noticed that it has never happened before either.

Got it towed and the guy who knew a little bit about vehicles said to check the alternator because that can shut a vehicle down. I got back and what do you know....torn driver side alternator belt. Replaced the belt while charging batteries. Cranked a lot and broke alternator bolt in block. Used screw out to remove piece. Replaced. Cranked batteries dead. Recharged cranked dead again. On occasion would put diesel down the air intake and same thing. Smoke out tail pipe and smoke out air intake when not cranking. Smells of fuel. Cranked batteries dead again and nothing. This time no diesel in air intake and did smell of diesel in exhaust. Did not notice near as much smoke.

Incidentally, the other day while driving only after 1-2 min of driving (with my normal start and roll at idle speed till drops out of high idle) it cut out on me while on waste oil in a turn. It started right back up on diesel and then ran like a top after. (of note I do not have issues with hard start if I am driviing on the same day....usually). The day before the shut down I parked on a hill with the rear downhill and had a harder start than usual but figured I just list prime is all and was pumping against gravity.

I have not checked voltatge at the IP yet while cranking because do not have help but I did turn the vehicle to the run position (but not cranking) and did get sparking at the IP when connecting it. I could not hear a click over the clicking of the glow plug solenoid/relay (what ever it is that does the clicking on the firewall)

Sooo, after my long winded explanation.....my questions are....

1) would too tight of a belt cause failure to start? (I do not think so but am not sure)
2) The vehicle (based on what I was reading) should have started, at least sputtered) without the drivers side belt. It would have over heated quickly if it did get started but just the same it should have started. Am I thinking correct?
3) Why wont the vehicle start now....is it possible that two things failed at the same time? Is it possible the belt failure was caused by something else? Is it possible that I am just missing the boat.
4) do I need to tear into the IP at this point or am I just forgetting something?
5) does the above description sound like my IP is bad or maybe my lift pump? (A problem is I cannot test my lift pump like others because the way my waste oil system is plummed. It pulls through the filters so I need vacuum on the filters for them to work.


MY plan for the day,
1) Try to crank it now that it sat overnight incase it overheated.
2) check voltage at IP while in the accessory position (half way between off and crank position)
3) attempt to crack fuel lines at the fuel rail (or whatever it is out of the IP and into the engine) and see if I get leakage.

Am I thinking correct?? The belt just seems to be staring me in the face though and I cannot see it.....

Thanks in advance y'all

 

[dependable]

The failed belt should not affect starting. I would suspect your IP failed because it was not designed to run waste oil. Just a guess.

 

[toddm]

The engine is not a multifuel, I would never run waste oil in my M1009, my Deuce-yes.

 

[ranchhopper]

Sounds like the wire going to the IP solenoid lost its voltage and shut the truck off.

 

[scoutdoors1000]

Ok a few updates:
Attempted to start it up without luck. Did not crack the fuel input at the cylinder because was not sure if that was the correct place to do it so I opened the IP. It was full of fuel and had a little bit leak out when was opening it. More like run out.

Attempted to start it without the cover on, as suggested by someone on another thread but to no avail. With key in start position get spark when connect to top of IP but no audible click. With top off Attached pink wire and no click and no movement. There is seepage at one of the lines coming off the IP but cannot be sure if that was from true sepage or from spillage when dumping diesel into air intake. Cannot accurately check voltage at the pink wire right now because for some reason my voltmeter does not want to work properly and only pegs out.

 

[scoutdoors1000]

Looking into the IP from above (after cleaning out the fuel) there are no black pieces in the bottom as detailed in this thread http://www.steelsoldiers.com/cucv/74031-out-ideas-no-start-m1008.html . There was indeed an aluminum tag with the letter E stamped on it on the back screw closest to the firewall.

 

[scoutdoors1000]

Correct me if I am wrong. If the lift pump is bad then there should have been an empty injector pump when I opened her up. Am I correct?

 

[epartsman]

Correct me if I am wrong. If the lift pump is bad then there should have been an empty injector pump when I opened her up. Am I correct?

Fuel in the top usually indicates lift is working but you will need to pull the line to the IP and turn it over. If the lift pump is working it will hose down everything with diesel so stick the line in a clear bottle. I had the same thing happen but mine made a POP noise more relay like instead of mechanical. I have an unresolved thread on this called pop went the weasel. Loosen the line to an injector and spin it over. If it is dry at the injector your IP is shot. I was dumping in on occasion a gallon of clean veg expired oil for lubrication and to see how it would run. It ran so nice and smooth on my B10 bio mix that it took out my 27 rear old IP and I have concluded that running anything other than diesel with a lubricity additive is a no no in these engines. Bottom line : Next weekend a tear down and IP replacement. Nothing can shut one of these off except for a lack of fuel or a lack of air. I replaced the shut off solenoid in mine and it clicks fine now but still no fuel at the injectors so I have an internal IP issue and I am praying it is not a broken shaft whick is not uncommon but makes the IP rebuild big $. Also since you threw a belt you may have a broken crank or timing chain. Watch the crank pully for wobble as you crank it and take a pry bar to it from underneath and check for play. Pull the oil fill out and make sure the gear that drives the IP is turning. If it is not you have serious internal issues that may have caused that slung belt. I hope and pray it works out that it is something simple. You may also have to ditch the waste oil conversion.

 

[scoutdoors1000]

Thanks everyone.

IP cover off. Drained. Not filling back up. Lift pump is working and building head of pressure. Not getting fuel into the injector pump for some reason. Gotta figure that part out. This is my first time working on a vehicle in general. Lots to learn.

 

[ranchhopper]

Your pink wire has no power its not letting fuel into the pump no click means the IP is shut off and will not work until the solenoid clicks when power is applied.

 

[scoutdoors1000]

THANKS. Solenoid is not clicking., interestingly though not bad. Ran a jumper from the battery to the internal wire of the solenoid and got a click and movement. Touched the terminal outside and got nothing. Only once did I get a click. Going to try cleaning the spade terminal and see what happens. Should I be able to start it though with the cover off?

 

[southdave]

My is maybe you created a slug in the fuel system becauce the mech. fuel cant feed the IP enough fuel at that viscousity.. crap shoot

 

[scoutdoors1000]

Quite possible Southdave. I hope my system gets it hot enough to increase the viscosity though. Runs with 4 different heat exchangers to bring it up to temp (one in accessory tank. Radiator hose running over fuel line from tank, through heated fuel filter then lastly through 10 plate flat plate heat exchanger.


Ranch....checked the pink line to the injection pump with the key in the on position. Got it to light up my test bulb but not to kick the solenoid over. Running jumper to now cleaned spade gives me a click and can see solenoid actuate. Guess I need a new voltmeter, new way of testing and new wire..... Now just gotta figure that part out. HA

 

[ranchhopper]

Sounds like you have a bad solenoid in the IP cover they are pretty easy to replace I have 4 or five sitting around here still in the covers for spares just in case any of mine crap out.

 

[scoutdoors1000]

Ranch, I want to make sure I am hearing you correctly. My pink wire seems like it has power enough since it is lighting up a dash light that is on 2 wires as a tester. My solenoid, while functioning on 12 volts is going bad because the power that I am getting through the pink wire is not clicking it over. Am I understanding correctly? Is it still possible that the pink wire is putting out some but not sufficient voltage? Just to clarify, the tests I am doing are with the key in the ignition and in the on position but no one is trying to crank the vehicle.

 

[ranchhopper]

The pink wire is 12 volts take it off the IP turn on the ignition and go over to the pump and touch the pink wire to the terminal you should hear a click. If that doesnt happen check th pink wire with a test light to make sure you have voltage if no voltage check your fuses if the fuses are OK check the pink wire before the spade connector to make sure the connector is not the bad spot.

 

[scoutdoors1000]

Ok done.

To summarize. Lift pump is working. Solenoid (after a good cleaning) is clicking with both jumper from battery and with key in on position and wire touching it. Injector pump was pretty much drained empty. Cranked for aprx 30 seconds in 10 second bursts. No sputter or turn over.

 

[chevyCUCV]

I highly doubt the wmo broke your pump especially since you warm up on diesel.

I'd use a good electric pump for the wmo side, they are serviceable.

And a couple pieces of clear fuel line can make this very easy. The first place is the ip return. one pre ip helps too.

 

[scoutdoors1000]

Going to have to try to get some clear fuel line. I do know for sure that there is fuel coming up through the lift pump to the injector pump. There is a splice between 2 pieces of black fuel line at the top of the engine where I disconnected things. From there it is about 1 foot of black fuel line to the hard line going into the pump. Currently, after all my cranking, I pulled the cover on the IP and there did not seem to be any filling going on. I vaguely remember hearing about a clogged one way valve somewhere on this site. Is it possible that the return line from the Injector pump is clogged causing pressure to build and the IP to not fill properly?

 

[Barrman]

You mention that this is your first vehicle to do repairs on. You also seem to be jumping all over the place on what you are trying and finding. Then your truck has what seems to be a pretty complex alternative fuel system on it. I am guessing that you bought it that way or had somebody do the work?

I think it is time you start over with the basics. Look through the diagnostic trouble shooting section of the -20 manual. It takes you step by step through how to figure out why a truck isn't starting. Look at the section about turning off while running and see if there are any common areas.

Just for your information. Do not pour anything down the intake of a diesel engine. Besides a possible hydrostatic lock condition. It could also cause the engine to run away if it starts.