M1009 New IP, now won’t turn over

[marand9199]

The problem; 1984 M1009 motor will not crank over. I get dash lights & GP wait light, but nothing when I turn the key to start. The Gen-1 light goes out & the water temp light comes on when I turn the key to start. Other then that nothing happens. I checked the engine fuse in the fuse block, Okay! About me, I’m more of a mechanic. Electricity & I don’t get along to well as you will find out if you read on so I need a little advise.

Here is how it all began.
I installed a new IP. After I had it in I began bleeding the fuel lines per the manual by loosening the connectors on the injectors. I cranked the motor for 8 secs and let the starter cool down then repeated. Did this 5 times with no fuel coming to the injectors. Tighten up 6 connectors and left 2 loose and tried again. Now I see fuel…good but, by this time the batteries went dead. So I put them on the charger. While charging I decided to put the intake manifold back on. While torquing the bolts I made contact to something on the fire wall near the GP relay that sparked. “CRAP” I tried to turn her over again with no problems, she cranked. & I thought I was alright. Finished buttoning up everything and went to try bleeding again and all I got was “click” “click” “click” Finished for the night I thought I would let the batteries charge over night. Next morning tried again and lights came on the dash but nothing from ignition switch. No click, nothing. That’s where I’m at. My meter went on the blink so I know I need to pick up another today.

Any and all advise on what to check will be greatly appreciated.

 

[cpf240]

I'd suggest reading the Fusible Link sticky at the top of the CUCV forum.

 

[Warthog]

Check/replace the very bottom fuse. It controls the 24v that is sent to the starter solenoid.

 

[marand9199]

Thanks cpf240, good info.
Thanks Warthog will check and advise.

 

[marand9199]

Bottom fuse is okay...replaced it with new one anyway. Well go over trouble shooting manual this weekend.

Any other helpful tips I should look into?

 

[marand9199]

Is this what you call the fusible link??? Do I check voltage , continuity or both?

 

[muddobber40]

Check the under dash starter relay. Unplug the connector and see if you have 24V at the red wire. Then, turn the key to the crank position and check the purple/white wire for 12V's IF you have the correct voltage at both wires, use a wire to jumper the red and purple wires. IF it cranks, you have a bad relay, if it still does not crank, check continuity of the purple wire to the starter solenoid. if its good, then more than likely need a starter. If you do not have the correct voltages, then you have wiring issues

 

[Sharecropper]

Rule #1 - Disconnect batteries prior to working on engine.

 

[Warthog]

View attachment 453922

Is this what you call the fusible link??? Do I check voltage , continuity or both?

The black plastic thing is just a cover for the connector between the regular wire and the fusible link wire. The Fusible link wire size is molded into the cover.

You test a fusible link by looking at the cover for splitting, burning or swelling. Sometimes the link looks fine. Give it a gentle tug. If it is bad it will stretch.

 

[Warthog]

Rule #1 - Disconnect batteries prior to working on engine.

Add " and anything remotely electrical" to that.

 

[doghead]

Does this apply to home electricity too?

Where are the batteries on my house?

 

[Skinny]

The little black things in the breaker panel...

 

[marand9199]

Finally got to work on my starting issues again this weekend. I did as Muddobber40 outlined earlier in this post and it looks like the starter is the problem. Bench tested and she makes a bunch of noise and won't turn. All fusible links tested okay. All grounds checked & cleaned including both buse bars.
Also found out someone put in a gear reduction starter with a 12V solenoid.


Questions for the electrically challenged:
1. I have 24V going to the large lug on the solenoid right?? and from the DogHead relay I have 12V on the purple wire going to the starter switch. Is this correct?


2. Does the solenoid need to be 24V? The old one was marked 12V. The trucks been running for a year now this way.


I bought a new High Output starter from O'reilly's (part # 03-0447) but it has no markings on it. The sales man couldn't tell me if it was 12 or 24V. Does anyone know this starter solenoid is 12 or 24V?


I'd like to make sure before I install it in case I need to return it.


Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Warthog]

A stock truck sends 24v to the starter and the starter relay sends 24v to the solenoid. The DH relay doesn't change this.

A 12v starter will work in a 24v system for awhile before it dies a painful death (like yours has) The starter and the solenoid needs to be the same. 12v or 24v

looking at the Oreilly website, the starter shows to fit hundreds of vehicles. It seems to be a 12v starter.

 

[marand9199]

Thanks Warthog that all make perfect sense. So what are my options? Can I have my old starter rebuilt for a 24v system or should I look for a stock direct drive 24v?
If I have to go stock any suggestions on where to look for one?

Never mind...I found a post in the classifieds. Look like Oreilly trip again tomorrow unless you have a better option.

 

[Warthog]

My personal opinion is to keep a 24v starter. A freshly built direct drive works great.

However a 12v conversion is a viable option. Easy to do if you use the RosscommomEquipment conversion. I have had to help a couple of guys do it as the previous owner hacked up the wiring.

 

[marand9199]

I like the 24v system also and want to keep it.

Napa wants $244.00 plus $44.00 core charge seeing my core is 12v and they won't take it in exchange.
I gave OReillys the GM part# 10479611 and they came up with an alternator. No help there!

I think I'll just bite the bullet and go with Napa.

Many thanks go out to all that replied. I would be lost without the SS web site. Who ever started this sire, my hats off to you.

 

[stampy]

Before spending tons of money I would clean the battery connections and tighten them and the grounds to be sure you have good contact. I can't tell you how many electrical gremlins are solved by cleaning electrical connections...fuses too. And it costs little to nothing except time. Sometimes when you pull a load the connection may drop out if it isn't tight also

 

[marand9199]

Thanks, good advise. I did all that in the engine compartment before trying to diagnose my problem. I also did the DH relay mod a couple months ago. The only electrical connections I haven’t gotten to yet are behind the dash. I’ll take care of them when I get the truck running again.

The starter I took out and bench tested so I know its shot.

 

[marand9199]

Finally got my new starter in with the correct 24V solenoid. Started bleeding the fuel lines and got about 15 attempts in. On the last try I heard a terrible grinding noise. Looked under neath and saw the starter nose had broken off and was dragging on the flex plate. (pics attached) Took it back to Napa and got a new one. Installed 2nd starter then continued bleeding the lines, put new glow plugs in and still can not get it to fire up. That is where we are at now.


This all started when I put a new IP in. The new pump did not have scribbed timing mark in the little window on the side of the pump. When I pulled the old pump I did not move any timing on the motor or timing chain and put the new pump in the same location pin wise.


Two Questions:

1. Can my pump be out of time? I assume the timing marks are there for a reason or the TM wouldn't mention it.
If it is out of time, how far can it be out? 180, 90 degrees...what?

2. Has anyone ever had a starter break like that? Is so why?

Help!


I'd like to get her running before winter.