M1009 Old Front Springs - Droop (What should it look like new?)

[DREDnot]

I respectfully disagree. Your assuming a man made, mass produced, for profit product is perfect, and has no room for improvement? A small (2-1/2") lift, and 1 size up tire is hardly worth all this fuss LOL! To the untrained eye no one would even know it's been lifted. And it WILL ride much smoother. Also this being a M1009 it lends itself more towards an all around utility vehicle VS a work truck like a pickup truck.

As a former Chevrolet dealer tech, and test driver at Toyota's Desert Proving Grounds, I agree that the factory puts a lot of resources toward ride and handling with safety and longevity in mind. That being said, they usually take the optimum for performance offroad and "Nerf it" one notch toward safety(liability).

Most of the 4x4s these days, and especially the leaf sprung units, will see a benefit (off road) from the smallest lift and a size or two increase in tire diameter. The quality and engineering of each lift kit makes all the difference in ride quality of that lift. Usually the cheap lifts ride like crap. Changing wheels and tires to widen "stance" wears parts and negatively affects traction, braking, and handling.

My personal opinion is that if you got a military vehicle, it should remain visually stock. That's the cool factor to me.

 

[acthomp781]

My personal opinion is that if you got a military vehicle, it should remain visually stock. That's the cool factor to me.

I agree 100% for me, however, putting a lift kit on is OK too, just not for me.

 

[rustystud]

I respectfully disagree. Your assuming a man made, mass produced, for profit product is perfect, and has no room for improvement? A small (2-1/2") lift, and 1 size up tire is hardly worth all this fuss LOL! To the untrained eye no one would even know it's been lifted. And it WILL ride much smoother. Also this being a M1009 it lends itself more towards an all around utility vehicle VS a work truck like a pickup truck.

OK. Lets look at this. You don't feel that 2.5" will make much difference in the performance of a suspension system. First lets look at springs. What happens when you add lift to the springs ? They get longer. Since their longer the shackles need to be longer. What happens when the shackles are lengthened ? You get more "bump" steer for one. Also stability becomes an issue. Also the differential's place in the vehicle is now moved. Yes slightly, but still moved. That effects the vehicles handling and braking ( you've moved the center of gravity) . So just this simple little 2.5" has now effected over 6 aspects of a vehicles suspension (actually it is more but no need to beat a dead horse). We haven't even touched on the steering aspect yet. Now we come to the tires and what they do to the suspension and steering and braking. Just adding one inch wider wheels effects the whole steering geometry and effects the wheel bearings ability to handle the load, plus taller tires effect the braking system significantly.
You do realize the factory spends so much time and money to get this right because they don't want to get sued right ? Remember the "Corvair" ? Ralph Nader made a name for himself suing GM over their suspension. No vehicle manufacturer wants that to happen to them. So they spend time and money to get it right. The 4X4 community takes stock vehicles and makes them into things they where never ever meant to be. Which is fine, but when they modify them it is not to "increase" their life expectancy. It is to accomplish a specific goal like climbing up a rock face. The problem with that rock climbing truck is you will not be driving it down the freeway (unless your suicidal !) .
So if you want to modify your truck go ahead. It's a free country (for now at least) . But don't assume your increasing the life of your vehicle or making it a safer vehicle to drive.

 

[rustystud]

All this talk about modifying vehicles made me remember my time in trade school. We where encouraged by the instructors to modify our cars for the race track. We had an annual race with the other trade school in town. The real reason behind all this was so we could have first hand experience in what happens to a vehicles handling and braking and overall safety when it was modified from stock. If you just add a few degrees of positive caster (for that better straight-away running) it totally effects the steering. Or adding or subtracting camber for road hugging abilities. After awhile trying to drive a vehicle that has 4 degrees of positive caster or camber is a pain in the butt !!! Almost every car modified was put back to stock after just a few weeks. We learned there is a reason the factory did things the way they did.

 

[Bighorn]

Blazers wheel incredibly well in stock form or with stock springs and 33" tires.
Just adding locking differentials and 33's and occasionally pulling the bolts out of the sway bar and you'll have more wheeling beast than you can handle.
It is fun being the sleeper.

I would go to Hollister Hills SVRA every weekend.
There was very often a crowd of lifted trucks sitting at the bottom of Truck Hill; a steep rocky climb with big holes in it that was visible from miles around.
Many rigs rolled on that hill or got badly damaged.
So here I come, idling along in my fully locked but stock height 1984 K5 Blazer.
As I pulled up to the bottom of the hill climb I would turn on my blinker, just to be an ### , then without stopping proceed to idle all the way to the top.
Parked at the summit, I would watch all the lifted "Glory" trucks burn out, stall, get sideways, and sometimes roll over trying to reach me.
Okay, occasionally I might have yelled; "Chevy tough, anytime baby!" into my PA... from the top, of course.
Once I even drove back down, stopped, and drove back up in reverse.. just to be an ###.
Moral of the story; "You don't need no stinking lift".
You need lockers, slightly longer front brake lines, properly aired down tires, and to unbolt the factory sway bar in the rough stuff.
Do those things and a stock Blazer will scare the pants off you where it can go.

 

[Drock]

OK. Lets look at this. You don't feel that 2.5" will make much difference in the performance of a suspension system. First lets look at springs. What happens when you add lift to the springs ? They get longer. Since their longer the shackles need to be longer. What happens when the shackles are lengthened ? You get more "bump" steer for one. Also stability becomes an issue. Also the differential's place in the vehicle is now moved. Yes slightly, but still moved. That effects the vehicles handling and braking ( you've moved the center of gravity) . So just this simple little 2.5" has now effected over 6 aspects of a vehicles suspension (actually it is more but no need to beat a dead horse). We haven't even touched on the steering aspect yet. Now we come to the tires and what they do to the suspension and steering and braking. Just adding one inch wider wheels effects the whole steering geometry and effects the wheel bearings ability to handle the load, plus taller tires effect the braking system significantly.
You do realize the factory spends so much time and money to get this right because they don't want to get sued right ? Remember the "Corvair" ? Ralph Nader made a name for himself suing GM over their suspension. No vehicle manufacturer wants that to happen to them. So they spend time and money to get it right. The 4X4 community takes stock vehicles and makes them into things they where never ever meant to be. Which is fine, but when they modify them it is not to "increase" their life expectancy. It is to accomplish a specific goal like climbing up a rock face. The problem with that rock climbing truck is you will not be driving it down the freeway (unless your suicidal !) .
So if you want to modify your truck go ahead. It's a free country (for now at least) . But don't assume your increasing the life of your vehicle or making it a safer vehicle to drive.

If the manufacturers thought their vehicles were perfect they wouldn't bother designing new ones. These trucks were designed with the technology of (30 yrs ago), to be as vanilla as possible, so they could sell as many as possible. The manufacturers of after market parts of (today) also have the same liability to sell a safe product. Technically by definition CUCV's are nothing more then modified Chevy trucks anyway. So clearly GM doesn't agree with you either. Nor would Don Yenko, John Lingenfelter, Carroll Shelby, Steve Saleen, Dario Orlando, and Jack Roush. All were hired by manufacturers to modify average vehicles to be sold at dealerships. Not to mention GM performance division, Fordmotorsport, Mopar performance, and Toyota rally division, (sense someone mentioned Toyota). Also a 2-1/2" lift kit gets it's height from a combination of new springs, with slightly more arch, and an extra leaf, Not longer springs. At the end of the day my truck drives smoother, thus holds the road better. Making it much safer to drive amongst newer vehicles. With the old springs hitting a pothole or railroad tracks would send your head into the ceiling if you weren't wearing your seatbelt! . Again this is just a slight alteration, we're not talking about pink paint & spinner rims here LOL!

 

[dao]

rustystud, thanks for the exact answer to my question....(2.0" clearance between between bump stop and leaf spring top plate). I'm looking into the rust issue. I'd like to have the frame, etc. all sandblasted repainted but not sure I can afford it right now...but looking into options. It looks worse in pictures. The cab is actually really good. It had just a tiny bit of rot in rear floor pan but it was already redone.

 

[dao]

I appreciate everyone's input...I really do. Some good stuff to think about. I used to be into old BMW motorcycles and Alfa Romeos and I see some in this crowd are just as passionate about what they like. I understood it with the old Beemers and old Alfas, but must say it was a bit unexpected here. Those old motorcycles and cars were works of art...in my opionion. Evidently some here see these old trucks the same way. To me, a 1984 Chevy diesel Blazer is a tool...not a piece of art. If I need a tool modified to suit a purpose, then I'm going to modify it. If I need to beef up or replace other components to do, then I will.

 

[rustystud]

If the manufacturers thought their vehicles were perfect they wouldn't bother designing new ones. These trucks were designed with the technology of (30 yrs ago), to be as vanilla as possible, so they could sell as many as possible. The manufacturers of after market parts of (today) also have the same liability to sell a safe product. Technically by definition CUCV's are nothing more then modified Chevy trucks anyway. So clearly GM doesn't agree with you either. Nor would Don Yenko, John Lingenfelter, Carroll Shelby, Steve Saleen, Dario Orlando, and Jack Roush. All were hired by manufacturers to modify average vehicles to be sold at dealerships. Not to mention GM performance division, Fordmotorsport, Mopar performance, and Toyota rally division, (sense someone mentioned Toyota). Also a 2-1/2" lift kit gets it's height from a combination of new springs, with slightly more arch, and an extra leaf, Not longer springs. At the end of the day my truck drives smoother, thus holds the road better. Making it much safer to drive amongst newer vehicles. With the old springs hitting a pothole or railroad tracks would send your head into the ceiling if you weren't wearing your seatbelt! . Again this is just a slight alteration, we're not talking about pink paint & spinner rims here LOL!

OK Drock, your just being obstinate. You do realize all the names you gave me where mostly Race "engine" designers. As far as changing every year, that is not true. Suspension designs usually last ten years or more. Also they are constantly changing their vehicles to provide "softer" rides for the general public. As new materials come along they are able to modify their designs. That is just "evolution of design" in action. I have no problem installing better components like "Urethane" bushings and such. That is just using better materials. The basic design is not changed though. When you completely change something from it's stock configuration without thinking about the consequences your not being smart. About your lift kit guys selling great and thoroughly tested products. Why then do they say only use "Off-road" on them ? Because they have "not" been thoroughly tested, and would get sued out of their minds when some idiot rolls his truck on the freeway. If one of your favorite lift kit companies offers there product for over the road use (no disclaimers) then I will take back my statement. If your truck that you modified was set up properly with new springs and shocks and other suspension components it would not be "hitting" the springs like you mentioned. Your springs where shot. That is all. Or you had the wrong springs to begin with. Either way you haven't addressed any of my previous comments about what happens when you change factory settings. Throwing out names means nothing without backing up with facts.
I'm glad you enjoy your truck now. That is what we all want to do. But promoting something that drastically changes the factory specifications and safety is not wise in my opinion.
In your next post please add some facts to back up how much better Lifted vehicles are. If you can find any .

I forgot to add that out of all the names you mentioned none modified a truck with a lift kit. They all where performance car guys. The only one who even touched a truck is John Lingenfelter who has only modified the engines and brakes on some trucks. No lift kits.
They all knew it was not wish to mess with factory design suspensions, except to "Tweek" them a little with better parts.