M1009 startup then "stall out" Hard 2nd start then OK

[justinwregier]

I have been through some starting issues before, so why not something new!?

Typically in the morning after the M1009 has been sitting a while, a few hours or more, the starting process is a little odd. I live in ATL and the last few tanks of gas I havent been adding anti gel... its in the 40s at night. Would it be as simple as continuing use of fuel additive? Anyway below is a description of the issue:

All the dash lights are doing the usual thing, the glow plugs are working, the starter engages normal and the truck turns over fine. After a few revolutions the engine sputters out and dies... gently but it shuts off. Then on the second and or further attempts it is a real long start.

I want to say it is fuel delivery related but I am unsure... there fore I am putting a bullseye on myself so the Steel Soldiers can smash me up with this topic!

haha I hope to get some leads...

Once the trucks starts the 2nd time its all good, loud strong and the volts cycle normal.

 

[Warthog]

Sounds like air in the fuel. It has enough fuel for the first start and then air. On the second start fuel is pumped and all the air is gone and she runs fine.

Possibly the IP is leaking slightly at the throttle shaft.

PS I like your avaitar. I had to look closely for the on/off of the headlights.

 

[dstang97]

Could also be a bad lift pump or a leak in your fuel filter base

 

[mutt1966]

dont tighten the fuel cap open it up a few turns the next time you let it sit if the starting improves you have a vacuum leak someware Id start at the fuel filter base

 

[justinwregier]

Sounds like air in the fuel. It has enough fuel for the first start and then air. On the second start fuel is pumped and all the air is gone and she runs fine.

Possibly the IP is leaking slightly at the throttle shaft.

PS I like your avaitar. I had to look closely for the on/off of the headlights.

Yeah I agree on the air in the line, just didnt think past the filter for some reason I was thinking under the truck. Im sure there is a leak somewhere at this point.

I have been bleeding the line, maybe once a week, during this issue and there isnt any real delay in a fuel stream so the IP is a good place for me to start investigating.

Are there any sure ways to locate leaks in the fuel system? Tank to engine my truck really shows its 25 years so it is hard to locate. Not really any large puddles underneath either... maybe a spot or two over a few weeks.

 

[True Knight]

I had the same problem. It was my fuel filter base. I researched on here and it seems to be a very common problem. I replaced the fuel filter and base with a spin on WIX filter and base about 3 months ago. Not one problem since. It starts and continues to run every time.

And that's a great avatar!

 

[Hoolio]

Fuel filter base is leaking ever so slightly...Just enough for air to get into the filter assembly..I got rid of that filter and base and installed a spin on filter and base..NAPA number 3132 filter [ I think]...Have not had any problems since.. Someone asked if the heater is necessary...It's nice to have but , think about it...Do any dozers or backhoes had heaters on their fuel systems..Not that I've seen.. Some of them run Stanadyne injection systems too.. [ i.e. Deere 310's thru 450 dozers..] Mine has not failed me this past winter with some days in the single digits... I changed the fuel transfer pump thinking this was the problem...Skinned knuckles and some new made-up cuss words later , I changed the filter base....

 

[91W350]

My M1009 had the same symptoms and the same filter base problem, I picked up a couple on Ebay. Glen

 

[justinwregier]

I had the same problem. It was my fuel filter base. I researched on here and it seems to be a very common problem. I replaced the fuel filter and base with a spin on WIX filter and base about 3 months ago. Not one problem since. It starts and continues to run every time.

And that's a great avatar!

I will check this out. I have been online most of the day researching the issue and various topics are becoming common...

Any part #s for this fuel filter base would be welcome.

 

[jdemaris]

All the dash lights are doing the usual thing, the glow plugs are working, the starter engages normal and the truck turns over fine. After a few revolutions the engine sputters out and dies... gently but it shuts off. Then on the second and or further attempts it is a real long start.

.

That is a very common problem for 80s trucks with 6.2s. GM sent out many service bullletins for the fix - to civilian dealers and the military.

Fuel bleed back is the stated problem. The fix it to upgrade the two "check valves" in your fuel system. One is in the mechanical fuel pump, and the other is a $5 valve that screws into the top of the injection pump.

You can buy all the parts aftermarket now, but here's a copy of one of the original service bulletins:


6.2L Diesel Hard Starts

Even if the glow system is working properly, some 1982-89 General Motors trucks equipped with 6.2L diesel engines may still experience cold, hard starts. GM says air leaks in either the suction or return side of the fuel system are the source of the problem. After the engine is shut down, air leaks can result in loss of injector pump fuel prime.

If the air leaks are on the suction side of the fuel system, GM recommends installing a new injection pump (P/N 25116503). The new pump features a new ventless check valve to prevent drainback.

If the air leaks are on the return side, a new HPCA (Housing Pressure Cold Advance) regulator valve (P/N 10149645) must be installed. This new valve and seal configuration superceded the old ball check regulator valve....
Something doesn't sound right. Your filter is on the pressure side of the fuel pump, not the suction side. If it had a leak, you ought to see some fuel dripping. Also, if the fuel drained back because of a small leak there, the fuel from the filter would still be air-free. Just the injection pump would get a bit air-bound. That usually results in starting problems after being shut-down for a day. Engine starts hard, but does start and runs fine once it runs a bit.
There were several Chevy and US military service bulletins about the problem. Ford-IH 6.9s had similar issues caused by a Schrader valve leaking air.
The fix was to install an updated fuel pump, along with an updated regulator/check valve on top of the injection pump. Both had enhanced check-valves to prevent overnight fuel drain-back.
Here's a copy of the bulletin:
Chevrolet bulletin # 89-329-6
Subject: 6.2L Diesel Hard starting cold
Issue date: 9-20-91
All trucks with 6.2 diesel 1982-1989 except 88/89 CK trucks with electric fuel pumps.
Even if the glow system is working properly, some 1982-89 General Motors trucks
equipped with 6.2L diesel engines may still experience cold, hard starts. GM says air leaks
in either the suction or return side of the fuel system are the source of the problem. After
the engine is shut down, air leaks can result in loss of injector pump fuel prime.
If the air leaks are on the suction side of the fuel system, GM recommends installing a new
mechanical fuel pump GM P/N 25116503 and AC Delco P/N 43254. The new pump features a new ventless check valve to prevent drainback.
If the air leaks are on the return side, a new HPCA (Housing Pressure Cold Advance)
regulator valve (P/N 10149645) must be installed. This new valve and seal configuration
superceded the old ball check regulator valve....
　

 

[justinwregier]

I will have a good shot at looking over the whole engine tomorrow. I want to agree with the "leak" issue since I do notice some dark liquid spots underneath where I park the M1009. Also the starting conditions are consistent with the comments already about the fuel delivery being compromised with too much air.

Believe it or not my wife drives this more than I do. I only noticed the problem because lately she has wanted me to start the truck before she goes to work. I thought maybe due to the cold nights without fuel additive/anti gel but the weather has been warmer enough here in ATL... hence this thread. I will bring my camera and my laptop out to the driveway Saturday.

Thanks for the direction so far, further contributions always welcome!

Enjoy your Friday evening,

 

[True Knight]

I found it on the Wix website and ordered it thru the auto shop i used to work at. #24309 is the base and #33123 is the shorter filter. Had to buy some 1/2 to hose barb adapters, but it wasn't too complicated.

 

[justinwregier]

So since I started this thread, the very next "start-up" and every other start hasnt had the symptoms I listed... I wish that was a permanent solution.

I know there is still a leak because I can see fluid build up on the under carriage. I changed out the front brake pads yesterday and the grime is common on the passenger side. The truck starts/runs great lately but I havent done anything with fuel. Topped off the fluids as usual and the brake job only.

I do want to do the spin on filter update and find this leak but also the tires are looking BAD... anyway Thanks again to all who posted, the direction is helpful & I hope to add to this as I get the components going.

Anyone out there have updated fuel parts in GA?

 

[True Knight]

My truck was doing the same for a while. I figured out it was affected by the way I parked. My driveway had a slight downgrade, so of I backed in and the nose of the truck was downhill, gravity would be pushing the fuel towards the filter and the truck would start fine. If I parked with the nose uphill gravity was pushing the fuel back toward the tank and it would stall and be even harder to restart. Eventually the problem got worse to the point it didn't matter how I parked anymore it would stall a second or so after it started.

 

[justinwregier]

My truck was doing the same for a while. I figured out it was affected by the way I parked. My driveway had a slight downgrade, so of I backed in and the nose of the truck was downhill, gravity would be pushing the fuel towards the filter and the truck would start fine. If I parked with the nose uphill gravity was pushing the fuel back toward the tank and it would stall and be even harder to restart. Eventually the problem got worse to the point it didn't matter how I parked anymore it would stall a second or so after it started.

I have been through the same process... I even thought the low 30s here in ATL for early Feb may have been affecting the fuel since I havent been putting additive in the tank lately.

I havent had any work done on the fuel system so I am sure it is original. Watch now that I have to go somewhere this afternoon the truck wont start...

the joys of CUCVs

 

[True Knight]

Ha ha, oh the joy. After I fixed it I couldn't understand why I isn't do the spin on conversion sooner! It took about half a day to do from ordering the filter and base to checking for leaks and test driving it. It was more than worth the time and money!

 

[Milkman357]

Great thread

I can smell the leak.. just cant see it yet..

I might try the parking on the hill trick.. great info!

 

[iluvbudwsr]

I think "True Knight" hit the nail on the head here. Mine was doing the same thing and I modified mine just like he did...this should solve your problem. It cost me around 50$ because I already had some parts to do this. Its not hard to do at all. the new assembly will bolt right right to the the threads that were already there. Good luck..keep us informed...

 

[hunderliggur]

Heater or no heater? Water in fuel or not? I live in MD and will be driving to the frozen NE in the winter. What are your recommendations for a spin on, heated, water in fuel, [maybe a glass bowl] filter kit? Or should I just put the simple spin on filter solution like my Case backhoe? OR, should I add the spin on BEFORE the original box filter with all the goodies? (like I saw on SS somewhere)

 

[bigdogdale]

I have the same problem with my m1008. A buddy of mine suggested I park the truck with the front slightly downhill, and if it started properly the check valve on the IP should be changed. Lo and behold, I tried it last night and I had the first normal start-up since I've owned the truck, and it was near feezing last night. Soooo, now to locate a part # for the check valve.