M1028 Won't Start Easily

[fireman5214]

I was just informed that our M1028 at the fire company won't start easily. This past Monday it started right up after letting the glow plugs warm up. Wednesday it wouldn't start even after glow plugs warmed up and they sprayed starting fluid and it started right up. We are thinking it could be the glow plugs? Is this a good possibility or are we looking at something else?

 

[TGP (IL)]

I wouldn't be spraying either in a Glow plug system without first disabling them.

Yes it sounds like you need to check the plugs,.

Unhook each one at a time and test the plug terminal with a test light connected to power source,
And the probe on the terminal.
If it light's = good
No light= bad.

Best to replace all eight and be done with it.

Tom

 

[319cssb]

Glow plugs are cheap enough i got 60g and dremeled the connectors a bit to fit

 

[Tinstar]

I was just informed that our M1028 at the fire company won't start easily. This past Monday it started right up after letting the glow plugs warm up. Wednesday it wouldn't start even after glow plugs warmed up and they sprayed starting fluid and it started right up. We are thinking it could be the glow plugs? Is this a good possibility or are we looking at something else?

Yes it could be glow plugs and it could also be something else or a combination of things.
The CUCV TMs have a troubleshooting guide to help solve issues, including it not starting.
A search of the old threads will help as the issue has been discussed many times.

DO NOT spray ether unless you want to replace engine.

 

[Matt5]

Ether is fine, people just like to keep saying the same stuff over and over... I would not make it live on the stuff but to get it to fire off as a test is fine so long as you are not retarded and load the death out of it it is fine. I have trucks I started and RAN on ether till the truck would reprime (filter leaked) trucks runs fine years later...

Anyone everyone gets hung up on that and being parts jockeys and gives no helpful info except "go read something else"

Did the volt meter move when keyed on?
Did the truck smoke while cranking?
Did the truck puff heavy after starting on ether?
I count plugs as a maintenance item so I would replace when I get a truck BUT you can't afford tires so, TEST the plugs, it should not start FINE one day and then be dead the next... that is not going to be plugs.

Was the truck parked in a different location? The stock fuel filter base is known to leak and cause the truck to lose prime...

 

[Tinstar]

Ether is not fine.
There’s a reason that the Military, GM and the 6.2L design says not to do it.

If you want to use it on your stuff....ok.
But to say it’s fine to use when it’s clearly not and has been proven so isn’t good advice.

 

[royalflush55]

It is not a good idea to use ether in any engine with glow plugs if any of them still work!! The higher compression engine you have the more likely it is to bend a rod or blow the head gaskets with ether!! That's just the way it works!

 

[Matt5]

Ether is not fine.
There’s a reason that the Military, GM and the 6.2L design says not to do it.

If you want to use it on your stuff....ok.
But to say it’s fine to use when it’s clearly not and has been proven so isn’t good advice.

Yep it's been proven... they also say use diesel only... yet we have tons of things about alt fuels... ...

Proven where? Reason why? I have proof from EVERY LAST 6.2 I'VE HAD that it don't matter. As I even said I *ran* the things on ether until the fuel system re primed... and these trucks go out plowing getting beat...

You spray a small amount while the engine is being cranked... no issues... you do not LOAD it up and then crank it...

Actually the worse thing I did was not running the motor on either (it never cared because again, not a fool dumping the entire can in) it was letting it idle for 3-4 hours in the cold...

The mil also says the front shackles are not a lift point right? Lifted trucks with them no problem. Wait don't the mill say MAX 55MPH on these things as well? ...

You should not be using it non stop but again for testing, done right... no problem... so, how many of you have exploded motors from ether? I have 8 running fine ones... just looking for the real life experiences here not "I read it on the internet!!!" also pretty sure the 6.2 says to use 30 weight oil... who does?

This is going OT now because people find the need to nitpick stuff they have no RL exp with... maybe you can try to help the OP (more than saying RTFM and having a heart attack over ether).

 

[Matt5]

https://youtu.be/f6cwBenfiLI?t=1111

Guess time stamps don't work.... go to 18:31 MOAR ETHER

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOtFoRBc1Gc Even MOAR sprays.... + a FIRE....

Motors fine...

I would *never* do this to something I care about but this just shows how funny it is to say using a little either on a IDI motor is going to cause the end of the world ...

 

[Tinstar]

Ether is not to be used on the 6.2L. Diesel.
It will work fine on other Diesel designs, like the M939 series 8.3L.
It can and will cause internal damage as already mentioned.
The Military and General Motors state very explicitly, in literature and decals on engine air cleaner, etc. not to use it. Ever.

Have guys used it and it started?
Of course.
Most were successful, some were not.
If the engine started and ran doesn’t mean zero damage wasn’t done.
All you have to do is read the old threads. The stories are there.
Guys have destroyed engines using ether.
Blown head gaskets, Bent connecting rods etc.
It’s a gamble at best with lousy odds.
Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

You telling the OP that using ether like it’s no big deal, without risk, is bad advice.
They need a working fire truck, not a truck with a bad engine.

I think this horse has had enough of a beating.

 

[fireman5214]

Ether is not to be used on the 6.2L. Diesel.
It will work fine on other Diesel designs, like the M939 series 8.3L.
It can and will cause internal damage as already mentioned.
The Military and General Motors state very explicitly, in literature and decals on engine air cleaner, etc. not to use it. Ever.

Have guys used it and it started?
Of course.
Most were successful, some were not.
If the engine started and ran doesn’t mean zero damage wasn’t done.
All you have to do is read the old threads. The stories are there.
Guys have destroyed engines using ether.
Blown head gaskets, Bent connecting rods etc.
It’s a gamble at best with lousy odds.
Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.

You telling the OP that using ether like it’s no big deal, without risk, is bad advice.
They need a working fire truck, not a truck with a bad engine.

I think this horse has had enough of a beating.

About the ether, we (my dad and I) told them that shouldn't have used it and it was a quick spray they said and it turned over nearly instantly, that is why my dad was thinking it was the glow plugs. We saw that they were only like 9.09 at our local AutoZone so we were not worried about that. We were more worried it was something else since it just ran on Monday and started perfectly fine.

With the working fire truck, yes we need it to run properly and we don't need to be like the department 2 townships to the West where they blew the motor in their 5 ton for a second time in the past 6 years (not sure what they did).

 

[antennaclimber]

Have you been able to verify if the GP system is functioning properly?

 

[snowtrac nome]

for the ether debate in a pre cup glow plug engine its not a good idea but can be used in a pinch, if used sparingly. if you have an intake heater or heater plugs the results can be impressive and dangerous, the intake can explode like a grenade. usually it just blows off the air cleaner and renders it useless on pre cup motors you do risk blowing out a precup. If you are responding to an emergency I would rather do a little engine damage than have a life lost because you couldn't respond. On engines like the 855 or detroits ether is the norm for starting cold the injection systems are a good idiot proof way to use it but those cans go flat after long periods of non use. Always good to have a back up spray can. All starting fluids aren't the same you want to use the ones that burn slower and state for diesel engines. another great option for a fire department is to leave the block heater plugged in it will work like a hot start. As far as the glow plugs go if you have 2 or more bad glow plugs that are open ,it will raise the voltage on the remaining glow plugs enough to burn them out. That is why checking glow plugs on a regular basis is so important, you also get what you pay for with glow plugs you buy cheep autolites plan to replace them much more often that you would with the good double element models.

 

[fireman5214]

An update, the truck started fine on Wednesday after a fuel filter change, there was air getting into it. Not today, it is dripping back out of the fuel filter even after a diesel mechanic at our department made sure it was on, he can fix pretty much anything from heavy equipment to cars. It has a hard time starting even after bleeding the air back out. If they put gas on a rag and hold the rag by the filter, it starts right up. We checked the filter and it seems to be on tight and correct and we were having a hard time seeing if the hose was dryrot and needed to be changed. They did not pull the glow plugs as far as i know. Me and my dad were up there talking with some of the guys just before I replied here.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Glow plugs are cheap enough i got 60g and dremeled the connectors a bit to fit

Replacing the connectors with the correct .250 connectors is less work and far superior.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

There's a port on the back of the filter housing that is famous for leaking. Might be your problem. Wouldn't hurt to check the GP system anyway, but check that leaky port. I think it's the fuel pressure sensor port, but don't quote me on that. Maybe someone who has wrestled with it can chime in.

Also, lots of good info in this thread.