M105 axle assembly to accommodate dish-out combat wheels

[tobyS]

I want A3 singles with the dish out on an M105. Someone made a comment that this hub could be "flipped" just like the deuce. I can't locate the comment now or the thread that it was in. At the time I think I just make a "thanks", but now I want to confirm.

Looking once more at the hub pictures below, I can't see any way to "flip" it and get more backspace to put the dish out (like the back of a deuce). This hub appears about symmetrical, so even if it can be ''flipped" there would be no gain, the wheel mounting face would be in about the same position.

Please prove to me I'm wrong BEFORE I go taking my axle apart and having the outer hub face milled off.

 

[DieselBob]

Looking once more at the hub pictures below, I can't see any way to "flip" it and get more backspace to put the dish out (like the back of a deuce). This hub appears about symmetrical, so even if it can be ''flipped" there would be no gain, the wheel mounting face would be in about the same position.

Please prove to me I'm wrong BEFORE I go taking my axle apart and having the outer hub face milled off.

I get the same impression from reading the TM. In the section about the hub, bearings and brake drum removal and replacement it makes no reference as to the hub needing to be installed a particular direction and it does look symmetrical in the drawings.

 

[DieselBob]

I have a question too... So if a man unbolted all those bolts around the drum the drum should come off unless the shoes were stuck right?

That correct according to the 105 TM

" 1. Remove six nuts (11) and bolts (22) and remove adapter plate (19) and brake drum (12) from hub (10).
2. Remove 18 nuts, flat washers, bolts and adapter plate (19) from brake drum (12). "

 

[tobyS]

I get the same impression from reading the TM. In the section about the hub, bearings and brake drum removal and replacement it makes no reference as to the hub needing to be installed a particular direction and it does look symmetrical in the drawings.

Thanks Bob... thought so.

I'm anxious for GentrysGarage to try some Isuzu duals that are 16's on one. Right now bolster and M1061 tire/wheels are on my want list. I could see using the axle for a multi-axle 2 or 3 axle trailer and keep the deck really low, with the proper tires and wheels.

Someone posted a picture of an M105 with 395's that made me think about using the 14.5 that will be surplus (3 wheels and tires) when I go to the 395 on the deuce. Picture of two is below. Since I like the dish out look of singles on the deuce and the photo of 395's on the 105 pulled with a 5 ton, I will use the axle that I have to make the hubs work for dish out mounting. We will cut the outer flange off. That will allow bolting to the flange that the brake is attached to, narrowing the face to face width of the axle assembly for the use of dish out combat wheels. There has probably been someone do this already.

The picture with duals and 9.00 tires measures 8'9" overall, so just outside the legal limit when using a 105 axle.

 

[gringeltaube]

..............We will cut the outer flange off. That will allow bolting to the flange that the brake is attached to, narrowing the face to face width of the axle assembly for the use of dish out combat wheels. .

Yes, that can be done... Just keep in mind that your lug nut holes are chamfered on the outside, only - so there's some more work involved.

The original M105 flange-to-flange distance of 79" would then be reduced to 68". But, with 14.5s on A3 wheels - dished out, the resulting overall width (tire sidewall to sidewall) will be over 91"(!) For reference, that distance is less than 85", on the A3 truck.

 

[tobyS]

I believe the axle modification would work for dish out mounting using adaptors and other wheels with dish out, but that is not what I have to work with, I have A3 wheels.

Please post items for making the axle of an M105 trailer to properly fit the super single wheels of any make or description on this thread, as long as the bearings are in proper relation to the tire center line.

 

[tobyS]

Thanks G. you said:

"The original M105 flange-to-flange distance of 79" would then be reduced to 68". But, with 14.5s on A3 wheels - dished out, the resulting overall width (tire sidewall to sidewall) will be over 91"(!) For reference, that distance is less than 85", on the A3 truck".

Is that the distance on an A3 truck with the dish out and in the "flipped" position (the narrowest face to face)?

 

[Recovry4x4]

If I follow this right, you want to run A3 rims flipped on an M105? Kindly share what you're looking to gain? The M200 axle is likely narrower.

 

[tobyS]

One member posted a picture of his M105 on 395's which sparked my interest. I can't locate it now to know how he did the wheels but I thought it was worth starting a thread, since use of the super single on the 105 axle is within the legal width limit. Simply dueling them up, is not.

I'm on a quest to use the axle in it's widest possible (legal) stance on a multi axle trailer and hope to purchase a couple of 105's to use components. I don't want a narrower axle.

Thus two goals for me personally. Make a cool looking 105 that I can see some of behind my 929, even if it is just some tire and widened fender and two, for use the axle component (unmolested as far as hub modification) for a multi axle trailer, probably with bolster tires and rims.

This thread is about making the 105 axle, including the hud modification, for dish out super singles.

I will be fitting the A3 wheels to my 105 axle and when I find a trailer (or 2), will switch the hubs to one.

 

[Recovry4x4]

I gotcha now. Standing down.

 

[tobyS]

I gotcha now. Standing down.

Anything you know about the subject would be very appreciated. Bringing me a cherry 105 at a very low price would be even more appreciated.

 

[gringeltaube]

Is that the distance on an A3 truck with the dish out and in the "flipped" position (the narrowest face to face)?

No, that would be almost 93". Because on a Deuce axle, the difference is only 9.75", hub flanges out vs. hub flanges in.

 

[11Echo]

One member posted a picture of his M105 on 395's which sparked my interest. I can't locate it now to know how he did the wheels but I thought it was worth starting a thread, since use of the super single on the 105 axle is within the legal width limit. Simply dueling them up, is not.

I'm on a quest to use the axle in it's widest possible (legal) stance on a multi axle trailer and hope to purchase a couple of 105's to use components. I don't want a narrower axle.

Thus two goals for me personally. Make a cool looking 105 that I can see some of behind my 929, even if it is just some tire and widened fender and two, for use the axle component (unmolested as far as hub modification) for a multi axle trailer, probably with bolster tires and rims.

This thread is about making the 105 axle, including the hud modification, for dish out super singles.

I will be fitting the A3 wheels to my 105 axle and when I find a trailer (or 2), will switch the hubs to one.

My M105A2 with MLVW wheels and 14.5's.
Trailer is original except the wheels and tires.
I have some 395's mounted I could put on it to check clearance.

 

[gringeltaube]

I'm anxious for GentrysGarage to try some Isuzu duals that are 16's on one. Right now bolster and M1061 tire/wheels are on my want list. I could see using the axle for a multi-axle 2 or 3 axle trailer and keep the deck really low, with the proper tires and wheels.
.......................

FWIW, this... is the wheel you want (not at that price, of course...!), if/when you choose to go for dual configuration.

I have an old equipment trailer here (farm-use only; made out of a Deuce frame with stock rear suspension & axles) which has eight of those wheels, running on 7.00R16 "Ë" tires. This is only relevant because the Deuce axle with hubs flipped has the same width (MF-MF) as the M105: 79 inches. Actually one of the many projects is to convert it to independent leaf spring suspension and using a pair of M105 axles, which I believe are much stronger than those stock M35 axle housings, with no pumpkins...
Tomorrow I will measure the distance between outer sidewalls, just for the records.

 

[tobyS]

This is great, thank you G.

I'll try and restate the axle dimensions over the outside of the wheels as I understand them;

76" ---- width of a M105 with one half of a deuce bud wheel on each side and the dish in. (standard M105)

88" -----width of an M35 truck with duals and 9.00 tires

102" ----legal width of 8'6" for US roads

105" ----width of a M105 axle with dual budd wheels and 9.00 tires. It's 3 " over the legal limit.

85" ----width of an M105 with LMVW (A3) wheels and 14.5 tires with the dish turned in and the hub not modified. (11Echo's)

98" ----width of an M35 truck with the hubs flipped to the inside and the wheel dish out

98" ----M923A2 width with singles and dish out

93" ----M105 axle with the hub modified removing the outer flange and LMVW (A3) wheel/14.5 tire with the dish out

 

[tobyS]

FWIW, this... is the wheel you want (not at that price, of course...!), if/when you choose to go for dual configuration.

I have an old equipment trailer here (farm-use only; made out of a Deuce frame with stock rear suspension & axles) which has eight of those wheels, running on 7.00R16 "Ë" tires. This is only relevant because the Deuce axle with hubs flipped has the same width (MF-MF) as the M105: 79 inches. Actually one of the many projects is to convert it to independent leaf spring suspension and using a pair of M105 axles, which I believe are much stronger than those stock M35 axle housings, with no pumpkins...
Tomorrow I will measure the distance between outer sidewalls, just for the records.

LOL thank you. That is the wheel that GentrysGarage must have to put on his. He is concerned it will hit the brake drum. If it is not more than about 10" over the tire to the mount face, it should be just under the legal limit. With only 6" wide of rim with, I bet it will clear the drum (I don't see the over all width dimension).

 

[4XDesign]

One member posted a picture of his M105 on 395's which sparked my interest. I can't locate it now to know how he did the wheels but I thought it was worth starting a thread, since use of the super single on the 105 axle is within the legal width limit. Simply dueling them up, is not.

I'm on a quest to use the axle in it's widest possible (legal) stance on a multi axle trailer and hope to purchase a couple of 105's to use components. I don't want a narrower axle.

Thus two goals for me personally. Make a cool looking 105 that I can see some of behind my 929, even if it is just some tire and widened fender and two, for use the axle component (unmolested as far as hub modification) for a multi axle trailer, probably with bolster tires and rims.

This thread is about making the 105 axle, including the hud modification, for dish out super singles.

I will be fitting the A3 wheels to my 105 axle and when I find a trailer (or 2), will switch the hubs to one.

I just thought I'd throw a few pictures out that pertain to your post. M105 with 395's and a trailer with 105 axles with M939 spacing.

 

[tobyS]

That's so cool 4XDesign I love the gooseneck change too. I'm sticking to pintle to keep the bed open. Good looking rigs! Now you need singles on the tandem (with the dish out).

 

[gringeltaube]

New, corrected info: the wheels on my trailer actually are 16" x 5.5" lockring-TT and have a backspace of 7.8".
Clearance between the inner rim and the (Deuce) brake drum is about ½". And the total width measured between outer tire sidewalls is 97-½". Again, these wheels/tires are mounted on Deuce axles, with the hubs flipped; far from ideal I know, because this way 100% of the weight is supported by the smaller, outer #392 bearing, only (!)

I have not tried yet to mount these same wheels on a M105-(A2) axle, but I can tell already that they would touch the drum. So I would need either some sort of spacer, or try to swap brake parts, or find wheels with a backspace of maximum 7.1 inches, or modify these...
That is because the M35 has a slightly tapered brake drum (outwards), same as the early model M105-A1. But the later model M105-A2 brake drums are more squared, there. Also, the distance - brake drum outer "edge" to wheel mounting surface - is about ½" less for the M105-A2 than on the M105-A1 and M35 axles with the hubs flipped.

 

[gentrysgarage]

Just an idea, cross reference the hub bearings with the M135 (there is a G749 parts list stickie in the early deuce section) I have a feeling they might be the same then you have another FULL can o' worms of measurement possibilities!