M105 Trailer with 600 gal Fuel Pod

[thathaway3]

I'm not sure if this is the correct Forum for this post but I'll give it a shot. I'm a former soldier who served in a Field Artillery Battalion in Germany in the early 1970's. I'm also a model builder and I'm in the middle of a project in which I'm building various vehicles from my unit during that time period.

One of my future projects is to build an M54 5 Ton truck with a two 600 gallon fuel pods and also the M105 trailer which it towed with a third 600 gal fuel pod. Per the TO&E I have from our type of unit, Service Battery had two such vehicles.

If memory serves (and it's been close to 50 years now), the fuel pod in at least ONE of the two trailers was filled with MOGAS rather than diesel. We had 33 M151 1/4 tons plus assorted generators which needed MOGAS, compared to 101 diesel vehicles, so one pod (or two) out of 6 seems to make sense.

I know that when you fill a 390 lb fuel pod with 600 gal of MOGAS at 6.3 lb per gallon, it adds up to 4170 lb which exceeds the payload of 3000 lb. I've heard from various sources that this 3000 lb was actually only an "off road" limit, with a highway limit being higher. Since we were always operating off road, I've also heard from various sources that to keep the trailer under the 3000 lb limit, it wasn't filled to capacity. Obviously with Diesel fuel weighing in at over 7 lb per gallon the problem would be worse if the trailer pod carried diesel instead of MOGAS.

So here's the issue: The company from which I'm buying the model kit of the M105 trailer with the fuel pod depicts the trailer as having Dual Wheels, not Single Wheels. Is this correct?
Clearly, equipping the trailer with Dual Wheels solves the capacity problem. According to the TM, the axle is rated at 10,000 lb, and as a former truck suspension design engineer I can pretty much guarantee you that the leaf springs (especially when the trailer also has auxiliary springs on top of the main leaf springs) are not the limiting factor in determining the GAWR. It's almost always the wheels and tires which limit the load. (We'll conveniently ignore the total weight problem on the brakes!!) And with a slightly wider track with the Dual Wheels being just a bit outside the cargo bed it helps somewhat with stability. Maybe.

I HAVE seen a picture of a trailer which appears to be an M105 with Dual Wheels, however I can not find any mention of such a configuration in the TM. I won't even try to rely on memory from that far back on whether I saw the Dual or Single Wheel configuration! And other than the one photo of an empty trailer, every picture I've found in the field with a fuel pod in the trailer shows a Single Wheel configuration, although I HAVE seen several where the single wheels are offset outboard from the normal position to where they WOULD be in a Dual Wheel set up.

So here's the question: Did the M105 trailer have a Dual Wheel configuration? Or is the Dual Wheel configuration actually a DIFFERENT Model, or was this simply a field modification? And if so is it a modification which came into being LATER than the period 1972-1975?

Given the early time frame I'm planning to build an M54 (per the TO&E) and a Single Wheel M105 configuration. But I am curious to know more about the Dual Wheel set up.

(And I promise not to fill the pod when I take the model off road!!!!)

Thanks for any help!

Tom

 

[jasonjc]

The M200 trailer was a 2 1/2 ton trailer with the same axle as the M105 but with dual wheels. No bed just frame mostly use for generators. So dual on a M105 should work. Not sure if this helps or not. Be sure to post pic's when you are done , we'd love to see them.

 

[thathaway3]

Thanks for the quick response. So as I suspected, a trailer with dual wheels would be designated as an M200, and not an M105. That makes sense and explains why the TM for the M105 makes no mention of any dual wheel configuration.

Given that our TO&E states clearly that the trailer that was authorized was an M105 (1 1/2 ton) with Fuel Pod, then it would have been, as I thought, a single wheel configuration.

So with that information, I'm going to go ahead and ORDER the M105 kit with the fuel pod and Dual wheels, but BUILD it as a single wheel set up. I don't think THAT modification is going to be difficult to handle.

The one thing I do need to check on with the M105 kit I'm ordering is the placement of the springs. I've already built an M101 3/4 ton trailer, an M149 water buffalo, and an M332 1 1/2 trailers and in those trailers, the springs are mounted directly under the frame of the trailer. And because of that placement, none of them have auxiliary springs mounted on top. (No place to engage them.)

The M105 has its springs mounted outboard of the frame, similar to how the rear suspension is mounted on trucks. This allows for an aux spring to have a separate bracket mounted onto the frame which engages the tips of the aux spring once the load deflects the trailer sufficiently to engage them.

I made the mistake of scratch building my FIRST M105 trailer using a cargo body from an M101 trailer kit which was slightly LARGER than it should have been and I figured it was "close enough". But I didn't realize that I should have re-located the springs outboard and scratched a set of aux springs. The trailer is too finished at this point to go back and try to modify it, so I'm just leaving THAT one the way that it is and I doubt anyone will notice! Hopefully!

I've attached some photos of the M54 5 Ton Ammo truck and trailer that I've already built. It's from Bravo Battery, 1st Bn 2nd FA, 8th ID, which was my first unit. (And since I took these, I've decreased the number of ammo pallets in the trailer to two since I realized that SIX would have SERIOUSLY overloaded it!)

 

[juanprado]

M105's in the sandbox were sometimes dualed.
Easy to do by changing lug nuts to thimbles and outer nuts like deuces and 5 tons.

Not acceptable practice stateside but solved a problem over there..

Thread on it here somewhere...

 

[Mullaney]

Thanks for the quick response. So as I suspected, a trailer with dual wheels would be designated as an M200, and not an M105. That makes sense and explains why the TM for the M105 makes no mention of any dual wheel configuration.

Given that our TO&E states clearly that the trailer that was authorized was an M105 (1 1/2 ton) with Fuel Pod, then it would have been, as I thought, a single wheel configuration.

So with that information, I'm going to go ahead and ORDER the M105 kit with the fuel pod and Dual wheels, but BUILD it as a single wheel set up. I don't think THAT modification is going to be difficult to handle.

The one thing I do need to check on with the M105 kit I'm ordering is the placement of the springs. I've already built an M101 3/4 ton trailer, an M149 water buffalo, and an M332 1 1/2 trailers and in those trailers, the springs are mounted directly under the frame of the trailer. And because of that placement, none of them have auxiliary springs mounted on top. (No place to engage them.)

The M105 has its springs mounted outboard of the frame, similar to how the rear suspension is mounted on trucks. This allows for an aux spring to have a separate bracket mounted onto the frame which engages the tips of the aux spring once the load deflects the trailer sufficiently to engage them.

I made the mistake of scratch building my FIRST M105 trailer using a cargo body from an M101 trailer kit which was slightly LARGER than it should have been and I figured it was "close enough". But I didn't realize that I should have re-located the springs outboard and scratched a set of aux springs. The trailer is too finished at this point to go back and try to modify it, so I'm just leaving THAT one the way that it is and I doubt anyone will notice! Hopefully!

I've attached some photos of the M54 5 Ton Ammo truck and trailer that I've already built. It's from Bravo Battery, 1st Bn 2nd FA, 8th ID, which was my first unit. (And since I took these, I've decreased the number of ammo pallets in the trailer to two since I realized that SIX would have SERIOUSLY overloaded itView attachment 824548!)

Very impressive modeling skills! Neat how you have the finish or patina so it looks aged. Even some dirt on the tires... VERY COOL!

-

 

[thathaway3]

Thanks! It's actually surprisingly easy. I use acrylics which clean up with water. The bowl I keep filled to clean out my brushes eventually gets very dirty, usually a sort of dark brownish green.

I just get a large brush, dip it in that and wipe it all over the vehicle. Eventually with enough coats, when it dries it looks just like our vehicles did after driving around in the field in Germany.

 

[fasttruck]

When I went from the regular Army to reserve components in 1974 we had M105s with 600 gallon pods in them. However, they were easy to roll over in the field especially with a part "slop load" in them so a command directive came out and transport of fuel pods in pintle trailers was discontinued. We also used to put tanker-pumper units (TPUs) in 2.5 ton trucks and this was discontinued as vehicles were overloaded in the field. 5 tons until HEMMTs appeared. M 49Cs were phased out for the same reason.

 

[thathaway3]

When I went from the regular Army to reserve components in 1974 we had M105s with 600 gallon pods in them. However, they were easy to roll over in the field especially with a part "slop load" in them so a command directive came out and transport of fuel pods in pintle trailers was discontinued. We also used to put tanker-pumper units (TPUs) in 2.5 ton trucks and this was discontinued as vehicles were overloaded in the field. 5 tons until HEMMTs appeared. M 49Cs were phased out for the same reason.

That sounds about right. That's right in the middle of the period I was in my unit in Germany, so I'm guessing that at that point in time it was probably common practice to have an M105 with Single Wheels with a 600 gal pod.

With that, then I will go ahead and modify the model kit which has Dual Wheels to be a Single. The company also makes a Single Wheel version and I'm purchasing one of those to tow behind our 2 1/2 ton Maintenance Truck. But to get a SINGLE 600 Gal pod I have to buy the kit which is the Dual Wheel version as they do not sell the single pod separate.

But as I said, I don't think modifying that kit from a Dual to a Single should be difficult. Much easier (I HOPE) than trying to go the other way!!!


This 5 Ton build will be some time in the future, but if you're interested. I'll either post photos, or a link to the Armorama Modeling site where I usually post.

And if you're interest in seeing the 2 1/2 Ton Mess Truck I did, let me know and I can post some photos on the Deuce and an half thread.

Thanks again for all the great help!!

Tom

 

[juanprado]

Yes, yes, and yes

Post pics. I used to build models long ago in another lifetime....

 

[SCSG-G4]

I'd like to see a model of the Mess Truck also!

 

[thathaway3]

Thanks for the interest! I'll start a new thread for that over on the Deuce and a half thread.

 

[M35fan]

First, your models look great! I love the authentic look and attention to detail. Second, not to gripe but there is a section specifically for models called "Models and scale replicas". Some folks are picky about where threads are posted. Third, if you don't mind my asking, what company do you order your kits from? I hope to have more free time some day to build models too. Thanks for posting!

 

[thathaway3]

My apologies, as I'm new to the site and didn't realize there's a better location for the posting. I'll move the new post I just made to that section.

Thanks!

 

[M35fan]

My apologies, as I'm new to the site and didn't realize there's a better location for the posting. I'll move the new post I just made to that section.

Thanks!

No apology needed. I wasn't complaining, just didn't know if you had seen that section yet. There are some cool posts in there. Welcome to Steel Soldiers, we are glad you're here!

 

[gringeltaube]

Thread moved.

 

[thathaway3]

No apology needed. I wasn't complaining, just didn't know if you had seen that section yet. There are some cool posts in there. Welcome to Steel Soldiers, we are glad you're here!

No problem, I've re-posted the thread in the model section.

Now to answer your question. The Model of the M35 is the AFV kit which is very good. I've spruced it up with the Eduard PE set which helps a lot.
As far as where I purchase them, it's pretty much whoever has them available on line.