M1083 crank no start, looking for a Mechanic to help me get it started

[Guerrillaco]

Looking for someone in Austin Texas, to get my LMTV started. I can get it to crank but I can not get it to start. I would like to pay someone to get it running or in the right direction.

469-465-3668
paul

 

[INFChief]

Looking for someone to get my LMTV started. I can get it to crank but I can not get it to start. I would like to pay someone to get it running or in the right direction.

469-465-3668
paul

There is a guy in Texas, Bret Fox. Don’t know where he is in relation to you though. He has a “Motor Pool” and is very knowledgeable; but, I don’t know if he works on anyone else’s stuff.

Let’s start with the basics:

1) Does it have plenty of cranking power?
2) Fuel level?
3) Tried priming the fuel water separator?
4) Is there water in the fuel water separator?

 

[Third From Texas]

There is a guy in Texas, Bret Fox. Don’t know where he is in relation to you though. He has a “Motor Pool” and is very knowledgeable; but, I don’t know if he works on anyone else’s stuff.

Let’s start with the basics:

1) Does it have plenty of cranking power?
2) Fuel level?
3) Tried priming the fuel water separator?
4) Is there water in the fuel water separator?

Bret is in Irving up NW of Dallas but I don't know if he wrenches for other folks.

But as Chief says with more info we can get you in the right direction, I bet. Cranking is good. Fuel issue is the usual suspect at that point (and one of the easier things to address/diagnose).

You have the Tech Manuals?

 

[Ronmar]

Is it an A0 or A1? As mentioned it doesnt run without fuel system being prime. You should be able to pump the primary fuel pressure to 10PSI. I have several videos on the primary system on youtube under username rronmar.

beyond that an A0 needs a run solenoid and an A1 needs a functional ECU…

 

[Karl kostman]

Do you just NOT want to work on your truck? The TMs on this site will tell you just about everything there is to know about your truck and how it works, the troubleshooting section very likely will have this problem in it also.

 

[Guerrillaco]

Good day everyone, so i will break things down. I purchased all the relays and fuses you see in the attached pictures.
the 3 locations for relays i should receive this Thursday. However on the second picture the corner looks like it needs some special type of relay i am not sure what it is called. i have a manual and i do not see it yet.

* The unit is a 1998 m1083 with a 6k miles
*It cranks but i do not hear the fuel pump.
*I primed it and nothing
*The unit has all new batteries
*see a couple other things under the pdu section disconnected along with by the bumper (some type of air valve) under the steering wheel i see a cut line.

--------If anyone has any knowledge on what i am missing please share with me thank you-------------

 

[Guerrillaco]

Is it an A0 or A1? As mentioned it doesnt run without fuel system being prime. You should be able to pump the primary fuel pressure to 10PSI. I have several videos on the primary system on youtube under username rronmar.

beyond that an A0 needs a run solenoid and an A1 needs a functional ECU…

Thanks sir i will check it out

 

[Guerrillaco]

Do you just NOT want to work on your truck? The TMs on this site will tell you just about everything there is to know about your truck and how it works, the troubleshooting section very likely will have this problem in it also.

I do not mind working on the truck i am just pressed for time as this needs to shipped off to another country so i only have a month to get it road worthy. Whatever knowledge you can provided per my post would be greatly appreciated

 

[Ronmar]

Ok well you are missing a lot.

left side of power panel you are missing the diode modules(4 empty slots next to the relays) and the wiper delay module(top left corner). The diode modules being gone is probably why it wont start as I think one of them may be part of the start inhibit circuit(button on leftend of power panel), which allows for a crank without start for maintenance. I will look up the circuit later.

It is a mechanical diesel so there is no fuel pump to hear. Cant get to my drawings till this evening, but I can tell you where to put a jumper in the panel to power the run solenoid on the governor. That should allow the engine to start.

the cut lines under the drivers dash should run to a 2way check valve right there at eye level when you open the door. That valve provides air to the park and trailer valves in the dash. The front/rear brake gauge pressure sensors are also attached to that 2way. Are those there? It should be just up to the left of the pic you took of the cut line. Pri/sec and park air supply is compromised, so this truck is mot drivable until this is repaired/replaced.

The loose lines under the passenger dash feed a fan control solenoid valve or rear axle valve. I found a inexpensive replacement for those look on youtube for my videos under username rronmar…

The part on the bumper is the park 2way check valve that ties the front emer glad-hand into the park brake control system. It can be bypassed easy enough but it appears to be missing the park/emergency pressure switch…

with all the air systems compromised, you can probably get it running with a jumper, but you wont be able to build air or release tge park brakes…

yea you got some work to do…

 

[Guerrillaco]

Ok well you are missing a lot.

left side of power panel you are missing the diode modules(4 empty slots next to the relays) and the wiper delay module(top left corner). The diode modules being gone is probably why it wont start as I think one of them may be part of the start inhibit circuit(button on leftend of power panel), which allows for a crank without start for maintenance. I will look up the circuit later.

It is a mechanical diesel so there is no fuel pump to hear. Cant get to my drawings till this evening, but I can tell you where to put a jumper in the panel to power the run solenoid on the governor. That should allow the engine to start.

the cut lines under the drivers dash should run to a 2way check valve right there at eye level when you open the door. That valve provides air to the park and trailer valves in the dash. The front/rear brake gauge pressure sensors are also attached to that 2way. Are those there? It should be just up to the left of the pic you took of the cut line. Pri/sec and park air supply is compromised, so this truck is mot drivable until this is repaired/replaced.

The loose lines under the passenger dash feed a fan control solenoid valve or rear axle valve. I found a inexpensive replacement for those look on youtube for my videos under username rronmar…

The part on the bumper is the park 2way check valve that ties the front emer glad-hand into the park brake control system. It can be bypassed easy enough but it appears to be missing the park/emergency pressure switch…

with all the air systems compromised, you can probably get it running with a jumper, but you wont be able to build air or release tge park brakes…

yea you got some work to do…

thanks sir for helping i received the relays and installed them, still the same thing with the crank and no start,, can you explain or some type of illustration on how to get the jumper to the panel to get it running?

 

[Ronmar]

thanks sir for helping i received the relays and installed them, still the same thing with the crank and no start,, can you explain or some type of illustration on how to get the jumper to the panel to get it running?

Yea when i can get to my schematics this evening. Pretty sure it is the diode modules missing that is the no start issue though.

At the left end of the row of fuses there are 3 empty 4 pin slots running up and down the panel. They each take a 4 pin module that has 2 diodes in it that are used for logic steering to allow some of the circuits to interact…

 

[Guerrillaco]

Yea when i can get to my schematics this evening. Pretty sure it is the diode modules missing that is the no start issue though.

At the left end of the row of fuses there are 3 empty 4 pin slots running up and down the panel. They each take a 4 pin module that has 2 diodes in it that are used for logic steering to allow some of the circuits to interact…

good day sir I actually received those three diodes earlier today and install them then I tried to start the vehicle and it's the same thing crank and no start.

 

[Guerrillaco]

Yea when i can get to my schematics this evening. Pretty sure it is the diode modules missing that is the no start issue though.

At the left end of the row of fuses there are 3 empty 4 pin slots running up and down the panel. They each take a 4 pin module that has 2 diodes in it that are used for logic steering to allow some of the circuits to interact…

these are the ones that I installed earlier when I received them.

 

[Ronmar]

Yep, just got to my drawings one diode is used in the starter lockout circuit but none are used in the start inhibit circuit.

first question, is K19 a 4 pin or a 5 pin relay? It, along with a few others must be 5 pin relays. It provides power to the run solenoid when de-energized so must have the pin 30-87A connection provided by a 5 pin relay…

If it is a 5 pin, can you measure 24V on pin 30 in its socket when you turn on the main switch? If the transmission lights up it should be present as they both are fed by the same CB-79…

 

[Guerrillaco]

Yep, just got to my drawings one diode is used in the starter lockout circuit but none are used in the start inhibit circuit.

first question, is K19 a 4 pin or a 5 pin relay? It, along with a few others must be 5 pin relays. It provides power to the run solenoid when de-energized so must have the pin 30-87A connection provided by a 5 pin relay…

If it is a 5 pin, can you measure 24V on pin 30 in its socket when you turn on the main switch? If the transmission lights up it should be present as they both are fed by the same CB-79…

thank you for the response I will double check the pins tomorrow and I'll also test the voltage if I have the correct ones. were you able to find the information in regards to getting the motor fired up or should I just keep on with the relays?

 

[Ronmar]

thank you for the response I will double check the pins tomorrow and I'll also test the voltage if I have the correct ones. were you able to find the information in regards to getting the motor fired up or should I just keep on with the relays?

That is what the information I just gave you is for Relay K19 when de-energized, passes 24V from CB79 down to the run solenoid on the governor, which allows it to deliver fuel and the engine to run. When you turn off the main switch, the power supplied to CB79 is removed and the solenoid releases, shutting down the engine By cutting it’s fuel.

The start inhibit button on the left of the power panel, energizes K19(which latches), cutting off the power down to that run solenoid, so you get engine crank with no startup for maintenance testing… After the start inhibit button is pushed K19 stays energized/latched until you cycle the main power switch off.

If K19 isn’t a 5 pin, the truck wont start. If it is a 5 pin relay and 24V is making it to pin 30, I would plug the 5 pin back in and then look for that same 24V on one of the wires connected to the solenoid on the rear of the governor. The other wire must have a path to ground to complete the current pathway that energizes the solenoid. You should also be able to hear/feel it go clunk when the main switch is turned on/24v applied.

Their decision to use 4 types of relays(12 and 24, 4 and 5 pin) in the panel was really silly. You can cut that down to just 2 types by only getting 5 pin relays in both 12 and 24v as 5 pin relays will plug in and operate in all the sockets just fine… A 4 pin relay in the wrong place will cause this problem, failure to crank, keep the alternator from coming online and a few other annoyances…

 

[chucky]

thank you for the response I will double check the pins tomorrow and I'll also test the voltage if I have the correct ones. were you able to find the information in regards to getting the motor fired up or should I just keep on with the relays?

Try this to see what happens ! Run a piece of electrical wire from the 24v + post on the far back left corner of your battery box to the positive side of fuel solenoid , If the solenoid doesnt see over 22 volts it wont open the fuel solenoid and wont let it start if you have a remote starter button you can put on the starter and be sure the master switch is flipped on with the cab jacked up so you can hit the remote button while holding the hot wire on the solenoid and you can use your voltage tester to see which post on the solenoid is the hot one . Ive had this problem before the batteies are hot enough to turn the motor over but not high enough voltage to turn on the fuel solenoid hope this helps

 

[Ronmar]

Try this to see what happens ! Run a piece of electrical wire from the 24v + post on the far back left corner of your battery box to the positive side of fuel solenoid , If the solenoid doesnt see over 22 volts it wont open the fuel solenoid and wont let it start if you have a remote starter button you can put on the starter and be sure the master switch is flipped on with the cab jacked up so you can hit the remote button while holding the hot wire on the solenoid and you can use your voltage tester to see which post on the solenoid is the hot one . Ive had this problem before the batteies are hot enough to turn the motor over but not high enough voltage to turn on the fuel solenoid hope this helps

Make sure you get the right terminal, because if you connect unfused 24v to the wrong terminal at the solenoid you will smoke the ground wire… it is best to disconnect the wires from at least one terminal to test with a volt/ohm meter, which is supply voltage and which is path to ground. To straight jumper to it, it is best to disconnect both terminals and supply your own power and ground paths for testing.

at the solenoid, the wire labeled TL28 should be the 24V supply and the wires labeled TL29 should be the path to ground. But the solenoid connection shares its path to ground with the water separator heating element… the second wire on the supply side runs to the STE plug under the drivers dash…

 

[chucky]

Make sure you get the right terminal, because if you connect unfused 24v to the wrong terminal at the solenoid you will smoke the ground wire… it is best to disconnect the wires from at least one terminal to test with a volt/ohm meter, which is supply voltage and which is path to ground. To straight jumper to it, it is best to disconnect both terminals and supply your own power and ground paths for testing.

at the solenoid, the wire labeled TL28 should be the 24V supply and the wires labeled TL29 should be the path to ground. But the solenoid connection shares its path to ground with the water separator heating element… the second wire on the supply side runs to the STE plug under the drivers dash…

Thanks for the correct way to do this ,

 

[Guerrillaco]

I am still working on getting it running. No luck yet and want to do the jump however it would be nice to have some type of illustration on jumping the truck to get it to start.

So far i have installed
-all fuse/relays
-primed fuel pump
-check voltage and wiring.