M109 rebirth into M48A2

[USAFNB]

I was able to track down photos of another similar trailer on this forum (how amazing is that) in this thread:
https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/show-us-your-military-trailers.52277/page-41. @maddawg308 posted it from some time ago, pictures definitely make me believe it's a mil trailer.

one thought from that thread was it was designed for the 10 ton tractors, also an interesting two axle dolly set up for it.

 

[Mullaney]

I was able to track down photos of another similar trailer on this forum (how amazing is that) in this thread:
https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/show-us-your-military-trailers.52277/page-41. @maddawg308 posted it from some time ago, pictures definitely make me believe it's a mil trailer.

one thought from that thread was it was designed for the 10 ton tractors, also an interesting two axle dolly set up for it.

.
That is a neat find! Amazing how sometimes you just can't see the forest for all the trees .
The dolly gives (gave) the owner a pintle to drag the trailer around the yard with his big blue tractor?

 

[USAFNB]

Well, it's been a minute since I updated. COVID really makes traveling a pain so not a huge update. I was able to get a complete winch kit for the truck....I will probably add a rear facing PTO later to power the rear winch.

On a related note, I found a trailer I am REALLY interested in. It checks all my boxes and is even close to my property in TN. I do have a few questions for anyone on here who may know.

The trailer is an M313 "expansable" van body built onto the M295 chassis. Does anyone know very much about these trailers? Picture is below, I haven't seen it in person but looks to be in decent shape. Now my questions:

1. What maintenance would I want to do in order to move it 3 hrs over roads (no highways)?

2. How would a trucker move it? Do they have transportation plates or something?

3. Does anyone have experience pulling a similar trailer behind a 2.5 ton truck? Any advice?

Any other recommendations for when I look at it? I downloaded the TMs and parts list...I'll scan through those when I get back from temporary duty.

Thanks all!
Nick

 

[USAFNB]

I'm picking this project back up after a deployment and bit of TDY's.

I ended up getting some lifting jacks another member used to lift his M109 box off his truck...I plan on installing the brackets and jacks this weekend. I will post some pictures but it's pretty straight forward. Once that's done, the box is going to Tennessee to be a workshop near my cabin and I'll begin going over the truck. I have a couple questions.

1. Has anyone replaced the brass air lines with the newer plastic lines semi trucks use nowadays?
2. I'm rethinking the winch, since I will most almost always be by myself. I've seen a few hydraulic conversions of the 10K Garwood on the forums but if I wanted to install a 20K "midship" winch...does that cause any issues? I think the short answer is yes, the 10K rating and line speed would be based on GPM and Line Pressure. 20K would be at minimum a different line pressure, right? If anyone smarter on hydraulics wants to chime in I would be grateful.
3. I don't have access to large quantities or air or water where I have the truck stored, will standard paint stripper remove the CARC paint? Anyone every tried it?

More to come, It's great being back in the states and close to my trucks.

Update: I wanted to give credit where it was due, @SMOKEWAGON66 and his posts about removing his box are what I used for my Idea. It looks like it will work great and allow me to move the box around our property as we develop it.

M109a3 van body removal

i just thought id share this...last weekend i set about the task of removing the van body from M109a3 for resto purposes. ill add some pix later when i get home. anyhow, i bought 4 2K lbs heavy duty camper jacks for this that have a 36"-60" lift. they have tripod stands at the bottom with feet...

www.steelsoldiers.com

 

[Mullaney]

I'm picking this project back up after a deployment and bit of TDY's.

I ended up getting some lifting jacks another member used to lift his M109 box off his truck...I plan on installing the brackets and jacks this weekend. I will post some pictures but it's pretty straight forward. Once that's done, the box is going to Tennessee to be a workshop near my cabin and I'll begin going over the truck. I have a couple questions.

1. Has anyone replaced the brass air lines with the newer plastic lines semi trucks use nowadays?
2. I'm rethinking the winch, since I will most almost always be by myself. I've seen a few hydraulic conversions of the 10K Garwood on the forums but if I wanted to install a 20K "midship" winch...does that cause any issues? I think the short answer is yes, the 10K rating and line speed would be based on GPM and Line Pressure. 20K would be at minimum a different line pressure, right? If anyone smarter on hydraulics wants to chime in I would be grateful.
3. I don't have access to large quantities or air or water where I have the truck stored, will standard paint stripper remove the CARC paint? Anyone every tried it?

More to come, It's great being back in the states and close to my trucks.

Update: I wanted to give credit where it was due, @SMOKEWAGON66 and his posts about removing his box are what I used for my Idea. It looks like it will work great and allow me to move the box around our property as we develop it.

M109a3 van body removal

i just thought id share this...last weekend i set about the task of removing the van body from M109a3 for resto purposes. ill add some pix later when i get home. anyhow, i bought 4 2K lbs heavy duty camper jacks for this that have a 36"-60" lift. they have tripod stands at the bottom with feet...

www.steelsoldiers.com

.
Those plastic lines work. It mostly depends on you and how long you will own that truck. If you go back with DOT certified rubber line and the hose fittings will need to be the same - you won't be fixing leaks in a few years. Those plastic line fittings are surprisingly expensive. Having spares in your truck is a good thing no matter what airlines you decide to go with.

If you notice, the Stewart & Stevens M107X and M108X trucks (Meritor Axles) all have been migrated to wire reinforced rubber air lines.

 

[ToddJK]

As far as the winch goes, the stock winch is plenty sufficient with a snatch block or two and a cable or rope in good condition, but from what I've read on other threads, the line speed will be different. The stock winch is a pita to use by yourself, but if ease of use is what you want, it's hard to beat an electric winch that you can use a remote for while standing a safe distance away while also having a higher load capacity. I'm too cheap to replace mine with an electric one, lol, but I have thought about ditching the steel fiber cored cable and going to synthetic winch lines as those can be had at a good price and can be spliced together to make the length I want as well in case the line ever breaks, not to mention most have a really good working load limit for the size of rope.

 

[USAFNB]

@Mullaney - thanks for the feedback on the air lines. I didn't even think to look for reinforced rubber lines like you referenced... I plan on keeping this truck and my other two (M35 and M816) into my "retirement" from active duty, they will be a big part of my welding/fab business.

@ToddJK - thanks man, I appreciate the thoughts. My only concern with an electric winch set up (something like an 18k Warn or 25k Sherpa) is the duty cycle honestly. Most of them are a fairly short cycle...I would say a pull over 20k will not be common but 10k will be a regular day at work. I figured dragging stuff up onto a trailer, a longer duty cycle would be preferred (PTO or Hydraulic driven). Plus those electric winches ain't cheap lol

 

[USAFNB]

Got some work done this weekend, I was able to get the brackets mounted on both sides. These couldn't have worked better, the pre-drilled holes sat almost perfectly in the middle of the M109's Box supports running side to side. I mounted these per the manufacturer's instructions with 3/8" grade 8 hardware. I didn't plan on having to clean off so much undercoating but it went quick. I'll do a test lift soon (with pictures!) and I also need to build some cribbing for it to sit on when off the truck until we transport it to the cabin.

Also, to clear the jacks...I'll have to remove the outer rear duals. If only the wrecker was here in Ohio, this would have been so much easier haha

Once I get the box off and stored, the truck is going to get a good pressure wash to remove 3 years of outdoor storage gunk and prep for fresh OD Green.

any thoughts on cribbing? I was going to use railroad ties

 

[ToddJK]

@Mullaney - thanks for the feedback on the air lines. I didn't even think to look for reinforced rubber lines like you referenced... I plan on keeping this truck and my other two (M35 and M816) into my "retirement" from active duty, they will be a big part of my welding/fab business.

@ToddJK - thanks man, I appreciate the thoughts. My only concern with an electric winch set up (something like an 18k Warn or 25k Sherpa) is the duty cycle honestly. Most of them are a fairly short cycle...I would say a pull over 20k will not be common but 10k will be a regular day at work. I figured dragging stuff up onto a trailer, a longer duty cycle would be preferred (PTO or Hydraulic driven). Plus those electric winches ain't cheap lol

That makes sense, as you're correct about the duty cycle. I know as long as the winch isn't working too hard, usually you can push the envelope on th duty cycle, I have seen it quite a bit on the Harbor Freight Apex winches and those darn things just keep pulling, so I imagine a high quality one "should" do the same, but if it don't, yes, that can possibly be an expensive eff-up, lol.

 

[USAFNB]

@ToddJK - Ya, I'm trying to make this a do-it-all truck with front/mid winches and a fifth wheel set up for towing. I'm also looking to buy or build an oil field bed with tail roller for it, that I could remove when towing fifth wheel. we'll see, I didn't really pay much for the truck so I'm willing to spend some money upgrading and changing it to suit my needs for my "adult job" post active duty but like I said before it will almost always be just me...so ease of one man operation is a plus.

 

[USAFNB]

Well, I was traveling for about 3 weeks of November but I was able to get all the bolts holding my 109 box taken care of. With the duals mounted, a few of these were buggers for sure. This weekend I'm planning on doing my test lift with the truck frame still under the box, and if all goes well then I'll plan to re-arrange how everything's stored to give me room to work.

I'm also going to be mounting a 2" reciever under the front bumper to make moving my trailers around easier...I'll get some photos of that too.

This is the last big muscle movement before I can really dig into the truck and start my work.

Also looking at these tail roller beds to go behind the winch, maybe a poor man's pipeline truck/bed.

 

[USAFNB]

Made some more progress this weekend now that I've been home for a week or two. I was able to do a test lift on the box using the lifting supports but ran into a snag with one of them. I guess I should have tested all of them and their full range of motion...it seems like one of them is binding and won't fully retract. This probably isn't an issue for lifting the box off but setting it down onto a trailer would be impossible.

As of now I guess I'll reach out to manufacturer since they are still under warranty.

but I SEE DAY LIGHT! Box came off very easily with the lifts, I have about 10K of lifting capacity but a very smooth operation. I'll switch gears to work on a few other things until I hear back from manufacturer probably after Christmas.

I'm eligible to deploy again in a few months so I'm trying to knock out as much as I can on this project.

more to come fellas.

 

[USAFNB]

Well I'm back at it after the holidays and a couple training trips for work, I got the trucks repositioned with the 109 in the back to make it easier to remove the box. I ran into a couple issues along the way but for the most part nothing serious.

First: Has anyone had issues with rust in their tanks? I assume my M109 sat for long periods of time and developed rust in the tank. I plan on replacing the A2 tank with an A3 tank if I can find one, if not I'll refurb or replace this tank but onto my issue. The truck is ALWAYS an easy starter and great runner but it was stumbling and stalling out just idling. I cleaned out some crud by the pump by removing the small allen head screw used to check fuel pump pressure/function. After that it seemed better, plan for now is to pull the pump, remove any crud and clean it. Pump is still humming away so that's good. Would it be better to drain the tank and try clean it out as best as possible? Would that be a temporary fix?

Dad is coming down in 2 weeks to help me on the trucks and at our Cabin...trying to get a few things done before I'm deployed.

I'm also going to be trying some paint stripper to remove the layers of paint, I don't have access to compressed air or water (only what I can bring on a small trailer). If this doesn't seem to work well, I'll give the truck a 10-20 foot paint job mostly to keep corrosion at bay until I get back and can move it to my shop when we build a house.

Has anyone used on of the dual circuit brake systems listed in the classifieds? Looking for some feedback on how easy it was to convert what I have now to the dual circuit system.

More in a few days,
- Caveman

 

[USAFNB]

Made some great progress this weekend, I got the fuel pump removed (it was in sad shape) and the final test on my lifting jacks before dad shows up to do the real lift next weekend.

The truck had some starting/idling issues last time I moved it so I planned to start with the pump. It would have been a PIA if not for a previous salty motor pool troop who "modified" the underside of my box. Looks like a BFH went nuts but it worked liked a charm, without that I would have had to drop the tank. (see picture) The pump was a mess, quiet a bit of rust...so I got to work cleaning it up and disassembling. I got the pump cleaned up and found the problem straight away, the intake end of the hose was plugged solid with rust and crud. I cleaned it all out and flushed the pump, and after reinstalling it the truck fired right up. I love these trucks.

anyone have any experience with a good fuel resistant paint? I'm planning on pulling the pump again now that I know it works and really going through it and I'd love to repaint it with something to resist rust. Right now I'm looking at Rustoleum oil and fuel resistant paint.

I also tested the jacks one final time and lifted the box about 1". It all worked great, I'm getting super pumped to remove the box and begin the real work on the truck. The box is getting repurposed as well, it'll be my workshop at my mountain property in Tn.

More to come next week.

 

[USAFNB]

Dad and I got a ton of work done to the M109 box in preparation for removal. I didn't get a picture but the trailer plug fell apart in my hands due to corrosion. Otherwise everything went fairly well, we hit one small snag with the lifts. Due to the width of the duals, I'll have to remove the outer wheel to make it all fit between the support legs. I didn't feel comfortable modifying the load bearing leg supports and removing the tires is quick and easy with a bottle jack and my Dewalt impact gun.

otherwise, the box came off without any issues. In the next few weeks I plan on doing some site prep and leveling for long term lift/storage of the box.

I'm also looking at fifth wheels, both military and civilian...some fixed and some sliding. Any recommendations from people with more semi-trailer experience would be helpful. I've read that the fixed fifth wheels can limit what trailers you can tow, I'm trying to make the truck as versatile as possible...hence my thoughts on a sliding fifth wheel.

More to come!

 

[M813rc]

Mainly for height reasons, I pulled the military 5th wheel off one of my M931A2s and replaced it with a Fontaine slider from a big truck junkyard. That lowered the nose of my trailers by almost 9", and allows the 5th wheel to move back a bit to accommodate short necked trailers to keep the landing gear from fouling the 14.00s on the truck.
It was an easy swap, the civilian and military trucks shared the same 34" frame width, and several of the bolt holes already lined up. I was originally going to plumb an air line to the unlock cylinder for the 5th wheel with a switch in the cab, but I figured that as seldom as I actually move it, an air fitting and the tire inflation hose work just fine.

Towing my M129A4 was part of the catalyst for me doing this - with the military 5th wheel, the nose of that trailer was just short of 13'10", which made me a tad nervous. Dropping that one by 9" made a big difference in my peace of mind, and leveled the floor inside a lot better. The top picture in the 2nd one below is reversed so that both are facing the same way, makes the difference easier to see.

Cheers

 

[USAFNB]

M813RC,

Thank you for the information, that is exactly what I was looking for...I think the sliding hitch I am looking at is even a Fontaine. I'm not 100% sure what I'm going to do with the truck, I have some plans on starting a small welding/fab shop once I get off active duty but I also envision picking up equipment and medium size vehicles to fix and sell...really just trying to keep myself busy and maybe make a little money on the side. I'm also looking at trailers to tow, I'm eye balling a M750 and pulling the van body for a shop or other low boy type trailers close to my property in TN. Someone else on this site did the same and the trailer chassis made for a nice drop neck trailer.

I also really like the oil field beds with tail rollers...I've got a few of those I want to look at. I don't envision pulling heavy loads often, it's more for odd shaped medium to light loads (like a non running backhoe or small excavator all out stretched)

With my fleet of trucks and equipment (2 -2.5 tons, my 816 wrecker and my big Cat 955 with a Cat D4 not far down the line) I think a tractor and trailer would be pretty useful. My other truck (tan one in my profile picture) is already converted into a nice dump truck so this will really round out the crew.

I really appreciate your help!

- Caveman

 

[USAFNB]

Making slow progress on the truck as I've been traveling a ton for work. I've been working to repaint the cab and rear frame now that the box can be lifted easily. I experimented with a few ways to prep the truck panels since I am limited on tools and supplies at the storage location.

What I came up with was scrape/wire brush the panel and remove the heavy oxidation or loose paint and then give it a quick sand too give the primer and paint a good surface to bond with. it's worked good so far! I started with the hood side panels, now I'm working on the fenders. 1 coat of primer and 2 coats of paint, I might do a third once everything is back on the truck.

I thought removing them would make it easier but definitely a PIA...especially the bolts with captive nuts on the cab side. I've re-thought my plan and am painting in place. (see photo of painted side panels).

it's going to look good from about 5 - 10 Ft and that'll be good enough until I get back and have a proper location to get the truck blasted.

I'm also working on research for my hydraulic winch conversion, my hang ups have been the front winch will be a 10K unit and the mid mount will be a 20k unit. They will both have different PSI/GPM requirements...I'm looking at either using two separate hydraulic valve set ups and power beyond functions to run them in series or possibly two pumps (one run off the engine and one run off of a transfer case PTO).

This would allow me to turn off the pumps when I'm not using the winches.


happy to hear anyone's thoughts!
-Caveman

 

[Mullaney]

Making slow progress on the truck as I've been traveling a ton for work. I've been working to repaint the cab and rear frame now that the box can be lifted easily. I experimented with a few ways to prep the truck panels since I am limited on tools and supplies at the storage location.

What I came up with was scrape/wire brush the panel and remove the heavy oxidation or loose paint and then give it a quick sand too give the primer and paint a good surface to bond with. it's worked good so far! I started with the hood side panels, now I'm working on the fenders. 1 coat of primer and 2 coats of paint, I might do a third once everything is back on the truck.

I thought removing them would make it easier but definitely a PIA...especially the bolts with captive nuts on the cab side. I've re-thought my plan and am painting in place. (see photo of painted side panels).

it's going to look good from about 5 - 10 Ft and that'll be good enough until I get back and have a proper location to get the truck blasted.

I'm also working on research for my hydraulic winch conversion, my hang ups have been the front winch will be a 10K unit and the mid mount will be a 20k unit. They will both have different PSI/GPM requirements...I'm looking at either using two separate hydraulic valve set ups and power beyond functions to run them in series or possibly two pumps (one run off the engine and one run off of a transfer case PTO).

This would allow me to turn off the pumps when I'm not using the winches.


happy to hear anyone's thoughts!
-Caveman

.
Well the painting looks good enough. That way you are protecting the metal...

As far as the hydraulic winches are concerned: GPM and PSI doesn't really need to be anything other than "pick your biggest load" and then build your system based on that. You definitely want to be able to turn off the hydraulic pump. It can be activated electrically or manually. The M1089 for example is powered by an electric clutch that turns on the the PTO that turns on the pump. On the M936, it is activated with a lever that activates a PTO that engages the pump.

You can have a normally centered valve that pushes fluid through it. That will allow either winch can be activated by pulling the lever (either lever). Engine speed at the PTO will help with flow (GPM) requirements.

 

[USAFNB]

@Mullaney - that's exactly what I had in mind. I'd be curious what the rear winch hydraulic pump specs are for the 936, I'm thinking the mid mount winch will be a 20K load max. I'm using another members research and work here on a hydraulic conversion for the front winch on his truck (Mudguppy). He did a great conversion to his truck (Cummins/NV4500 and the winch).

He found for the front 10k winch, to maintain current line speed and 10k capacity he needed 24 GPM and 2000 PSI.

Am I wrong in guessing a 20K winch with a 20K load would require a higher pressure and/or higher GPM?