M135 Brake problem, please help.

[Brad]

Last year my 82 yr old Father and I got his 1952 M135 done enough just in time for him to take it in a large local parade. It was worth all the time effort and cash just to see the big smile on his face. Especially when the large crowd would express their appreciation. Then on Nov 15 he suffered a very bad stroke, and I dont know if we'll ever be able to get him in the cab again.
But now the problem. When I parked it the brakes were fine. But now there is a problem. I have bled them twice. When I do I get a decent pedal, but it goes away in less than a minute. I think it's theAir Hydraulic Cylinder. When the pedal is being held down there is the sound of leaking air. But I cannot find a leak. I have wet down with soapy water but can find nothing.
It does make the correct "Swoosh" air sound when the pedal is released, but this leaking noise is when the pedal is being held down only.
Any ideas guys?
I also think about re-rebuilding the master cylinder, which we just did a couple years back.
Also something to consider is that most of the wheels show signs of wheel cylinder leagage. But they have for a few years and that has not seemed to sffect any thing before.
I am rebuilding the cylinders as I have reason and opportunity to pull the wheels off? Thats a big chore for just me alone. I have problems of my own also.
Any air cylinders available> Any suggestions??
I'd sure like to get Dad to a few more events.
Thanks in advance,
Brad Foust

 

[MWMULES]

Have you bled, lubed or rebuilt the air pack?

 

[Brad]

Last summer. We tried to build one from two we had. We used the best parts we had and it seemed to work pretty good. One of the bleeders was stripped and I had to block it permanently. But it still worked well after I installed it and bled the syatem.
The air sound that seems to be inside it is new to me and I think might be the problem. But I really dont know. MAybe thats a normal sound?
Also, how can I add aphoto to this message? I wonder if it's possible?
Thanks for your help. I need it.
Before it was just Dad and I. He could not do allot, but he could tell me what to do and he had great knowledge and experience.
Now he cant tell me anything. So it's really tough.
Thanks again

 

[m1010plowboy]

Dad and the M135

Age comes fast doesn't it.

Best wishes to pops, tell him to get better and my truck is always available for a drive.


PICTURES

There is a 'paper clip attachment icon' right next to the happy face when you're replying to a message. When you click on it you get 8 BROWSE boxes that pop up.

I stick my camera card in my computer and BROWSE "computer" or "pictures" for those I have saved in my picture. file.

That's my 168 year old parents in my pic' and I'm so lucky they can still get in the truck.

BRAKES

MWMULES is right about the starting point. Air-pak. I'm trying to find the "lube my air hydraulic cylinder" TM but it evades me right now...anyone??

Maybe a link to the TM on the Bleed Procedure will help. MilitaryTrucks.ca - M135 Deuce Truck I believe Brakes are page 3 of 4 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] TM 9-8024 (part 3 of 4)[/FONT] air pak first.

There is a lot of info in the 'EARLY DEUCE' FORUM about air-pak suppliers.
Page 32 I think http://www.steelsoldiers.com/early-deuce/73907-my-gmc-little-update-31.html

Here's a contact
Welcome to Precision Rebuilders.com

Tear it down, find the leaks and let us know what you need to fix it.

 

[scoutmanadam]

When you rebuilt the airpac, did you hone the cylinder or just put the parts back in

 

[Brad]

I believe I honed the small cylinder, but the large one I just reassembled.
Thanks guys for all the help.
I'm going to tear it down asap and I'll grt back to all.
Memorial Day is fast approaching and I'd like to get it going for then.
Regards, (still dont see that paper clip icon?)
Brad

 

[Brad]

OK friends,
I got the cylinder out of the truck and have it pretty well torn down.
I cannot find any obvious major problems like a torn seal, etc.
I have noticed the rubber seal on the small piston looks very worn. It slides in and out very loosly. Could this allow back leakage and allow my brakes to go away?
Also, I have the very end off the unit where the now pressurized fluid feeds on toward the wheel cylinders. With my mouth aI can draw air thru in the direcyion it's supposed to flow. BUT I can also blow back and there is definetly a fair amount of back leakage of air thru the check valve.
Is there a re-build kit available with all the seals, etc??
Also, I am searching on line for one, but does anyone know of an assembly drawing for the Air Hyraulic cylinder in detail??
Thanks in advance for all your input.
Brad

 

[m1010plowboy]

Air Pak

Nearly every problem that a G749 series truck can have has been solved on the "Early Deuce" Forum.

It all became very clear to me after months of searching. I just had to look for it.

Scan through the threads for key words.....brakes-issues......for example.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/early-deuce/85581-m211-brake-issues.html

Your air hydraulic cylinder pic and an associated TM page awaits.

The TM's on the link I provided are still your best bet.

Good Reading.

 

[joshs1ofakindxj]

Hey Brad, it's Josh!

In TM 9-8024 Part 3 of 4 linked below by Plowboy, pages 82-100 cover troubleshooting and replacing parts in the service brake system. It sounds like you already got the air pack out, so that isn't much help, but there are some tests for air pressure in the system that might be helpful.

Maybe a link to the TM on the Bleed Procedure will help. MilitaryTrucks.ca - M135 Deuce Truck I believe Brakes are page 3 of 4 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] TM 9-8024 (part 3 of 4)[/FONT] air pak first

Regarding the posting of pictures, when you click the "Add Replay" button on the top or bottom of the forum on the left side, it will take you to the advanced reply mode. You can't upload pictures using the "Quick Reply" window found at the bottom of the forum.

When in advanced reply, the paperclip icon is small and located just above the text window in the tool bar where you will also find buttons for adding links and modifying your font.

Clicking the paperclip will open another window where you will select the file on your computer and upload it. Once uploading is complete you will see the file listed below the upload selection. Then you close that window and finish your text.

OR just wait and I will show you at my house later tonight haha.

 

[joshs1ofakindxj]

And read this completely:

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/early-deuce/70703-m220-airpak-rebuild.html

 

[Brad]

Back to my M135 Brake Problem...............

Well friends, here I am back!
I had the Booster Cylinder rebuilt by Precision Rebuilders.
I must say that they were very helpful and turned it right around in a hurry.
I am now going to re-enstall it as soon as I am finished writing this.
Please keep your fingers crossed!?!?!
Now I will ask. Is there anything I need to do other than install ing it and bleeding the brakes?
Any lubricating, etc.
I will look in my manual for maintenance of course, but does anyone have any "tips" that would help?
Thanks for all the help.
Brad

 

[joshs1ofakindxj]

Don't forget to bleed first at the booster, then bleed the farthest brake then working closer. It might take quite awhile to bleed that furthest brake. Took me over 10 minutes to fill everything up to that point I think. I hope you have a Solider B to help or a pressure bleeder!

 

[m1010plowboy]

M135 air hydraulic cylinder

That's great news Brad, you knocked it out of the park but still need to get to home plate.

We were patient with the bleed process.

SuperDave had me fill the Master Cylinder and 'gravity feed' the lines....after scrubbing the truck floor and cap for surgical cleanliness....then we went through the bleed process here. Power bleeding would be so much easier however 2 people can do this.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]TM 9-8024 (part 3 of 4)

Pages . . . . 437 onward


We also took the 'tank feed' line off the back of the compressor and adapted it to fit our shop compressor. We could bring the truck to 90 PSI and test for leaks without the truck running.

I'll give Precision a call to see if he can come up with a parts list and get some inventory for a re-build kit put together.

Glad it's working out.
[/FONT]

 

[Brad]

IAs I write this I am having some difficulty. It seems the cylinder is working ok, but I have a nagging leak right where the fluid line enters the cylinder.
I'm sre its no big thing but I put two new copper washers on it, but I keep getting a drop of fluid sneaking out between the line block and the washers.
I just took out the bolt and added a second washer against the cylinder where it appears to be leaking. If that doesnt do it I'll try some kind of fiber washer.
But other than this pesky leak I have good breaks.
As for precision, I tried to buy a rebuild kit from them but basically they said no. They rebuild but dont sell kits.
They said they have a bunch of the parts but not identified so as to build a kit.
I'll be happy just to get this truck rolling, or actually stopping, again.
Thanks averyone

 

[joshs1ofakindxj]

Sounds like you're having trouble with a banjo bolt type of connection?

Try roughing up the surfaces of the line block with a wire brush.

 

[Brad]

Well, DISASTER!!!
I tried tightening it just tooo much, and I'm sure you know what happened!
STRIPPED the lousy thing. I was going to take it back apart and try and make a gasket but my well meaning neighbor suggested a breaker bar. I knew better, but tried it anyway.
Now I am trying to re-thread the hole for a 3/8" 90 degree brass fitting.
I am disgusted with this thing.

 

[joshs1ofakindxj]

Call me tomorrow if you still have issues.

 

[Stan Leschert]

Don't give up. You are so very close to getting it right!

 

[Seatyger]

Hey Brother, Worst Case scenario I will send you a 'take off' piece i have in the parts bin. If you can post a photo of the 'problem'. Been there, done that with the stripped fitting.......all day long actually.

 

[Brad]

Hey ya'all,
Yep, all day long, basically. Course I just took my time in this heat.
Anyway, I tapped the inlet in the aluminum to a 3/8" pipe thread and screwed in a stell bushing with a 1/4" inner hole. Used a little good old JB Weld just to help seal it up, the treads were very good, but just in case.
Put it all back together and crawled under the truck with it.
Lucky my Son stopped in and he did the pumping while I bled everything.
And, away we go. Got good brakes, so far so good.
Truck sure is noisy, but what the heck.
Thanks everyone for all the help and advice.
Brad