M135 transmision maybe destroyed from towing-First post

[rustystud]

The skf and rolls royce reps i work with vulcanize lip seals from cut to size stock. They use high tech epoxies and a heated press die. Maybe give the SKF marine division a call and see what they have. Then all you would need is a seal housing.
Rolls royce also used the hydramatic under licence i remember reading as well..

That is what this shop does. In fact the front of the shop is a store for 'O'- rings of all sizes and materials. The back half is where the machine shop is. It's all one store though.

 

[rustystud]

I want to see somebody put two manual transmissions together and make it work with two shifters. You'd have the gearing you need

What two transmissions were you thinking about ? Now if your talking about the Hydra-Matic they did "double" them on some 5 ton trucks. I have the factory repair manual for it. One sits normally and the other mounts underneath that one but totally upside down. There is a gear case connecting the fronts and one connecting the backs. Really weird.

 

[DUUANE]

I have 2 trucks with 5&4 transmission setups..its not as cool as it sounds.. the synchonizers will block you out of a shift if you try and do the wrong thing..you loose momentumn..and you start again from the basement.

The other issue with stacking transmissions is torque multiplication. The input of the second trans has to be able to take peak engine torque multiplied by your lowest gear in the main box(usually reverse) if it cant..bad things happen.

Eaton/fuller is the answer if you want a manual shift...my favorite one is what we called a super 10 speed. It was a close ratio 10spd with 5 sequential gears in a deep reduction range. A beautiful transmission for heavy haul off highway.
Again the question will be will the sae #2 flywheel housing clear the torque rod by the starter?
I wish there was someone close to me that had a truck with the engine out and transmission in so i could take some good measurements before i shell out for parts.

 

[Jeremiahwestendorf]

I figured somebody thought about it harder than I did, I was thinking you'd use the back transmission for low range, basically leaving it in straight drive on the road, then use the front transmission to run through the gears. Honestly, I was picturing a 3 speed behind a 4 speed, but I didn't take into consideration the torque multiplication on the internals. I guess the easiest way would be to install a transmission and a married transfer case with low range ahead of the original transfer case

 

[XLTVIE]

I remember back in the mid 1960's Memphis Equipment had a couple of kits for the m135/m211 trucks. One kit converted the trans to a manual shift automatic, called the "reb" kit. The other kit was to replace the trans with a Clark 5 speed. They might be able to give some advice on your problem.

 

[DUUANE]

All will be revealed once i yank the power pak ... 8-p

 

[Jeremiahwestendorf]

Just an update on my transmission, I couldn't get the tests done outlined in the TM's, so I decided to drain the oil and pull the pan. I knew it was a bad sign when pieces were splashing into the bucket. After the oil stopped draining, I stuck my finger up the drain hole and stirred around all the loose giblets until I could find pieces small enough to pull through. I pulled out some wire, some friction material in large chunks, and what looks like steel pressure plate. Also I could feel a metal rod about 1/4" around and several inches long, along with a bunch of other loose junk. I might still pull the pan just out of sick curiosity. Its like its been through a blender

 

[gentrysgarage]

 

[gentrysgarage]

Just something I have been thinking about. How a bout a shorty (dragster) Powerglide and a Brownie box? Or just using the reduction gear off the Hydromatic and the shorty powerglide...just things I ponder about when I SHOULD be working on my truck! LOL!

 

[Jeremiahwestendorf]

I just figured somebody would have done that by now

 

[rustystud]

Just something I have been thinking about. How a bout a shorty (dragster) Powerglide and a Brownie box? Or just using the reduction gear off the Hydromatic and the shorty powerglide...just things I ponder about when I SHOULD be working on my truck! LOL!

The reduction housing only fits the Hydra-Matic transmission. It shares to many components to function alone. Already thought about it.
Now the idea of a "brownie" box is intriguing. I thought a good TH400 coupled to a two or even a three speed brownie box would work. The TH400 can easily be built to handle over 800 HP with minimum modifications. Just a few hundred dollars more and it can handle over 1000 HP . No way in the world would we be using an engine that would put out that kind of power. Now the brownie box would need to be a 6000 series or higher to handle the torque. I've seen 7000 series going for pretty reasonable prices. They are pretty big though for the deuce . It would be a better fit in the 5 tons . Just saying there are options out there.

 

[rustystud]

Just an update on my transmission, I couldn't get the tests done outlined in the TM's, so I decided to drain the oil and pull the pan. I knew it was a bad sign when pieces were splashing into the bucket. After the oil stopped draining, I stuck my finger up the drain hole and stirred around all the loose giblets until I could find pieces small enough to pull through. I pulled out some wire, some friction material in large chunks, and what looks like steel pressure plate. Also I could feel a metal rod about 1/4" around and several inches long, along with a bunch of other loose junk. I might still pull the pan just out of sick curiosity. Its like its been through a blender

If you have that much debris in the oil then you had a catastrophic failure. What where you doing to the truck when this happened ?

 

[DUUANE]

The reduction housing only fits the Hydra-Matic transmission. It shares to many components to function alone. Already thought about it.
Now the idea of a "brownie" box is intriguing. I thought a good TH400 coupled to a two or even a three speed brownie box would work. The TH400 can easily be built to handle over 800 HP with minimum modifications. Just a few hundred dollars more and it can handle over 1000 HP . No way in the world would we be using an engine that would put out that kind of power. Now the brownie box would need to be a 6000 series or higher to handle the torque. I've seen 7000 series going for pretty reasonable prices. They are pretty big though for the deuce . It would be a better fit in the 5 tons . Just saying there are options out there.

I have 2 7041 aux transmissions in trucks i can measure for you if you want to know..they are big and you would need another jack shaft to the main trans. I would say there isnt enough realestate between the engine and tcase to do it.


Does anyone have an exact length for the hyrdamatic handy?

 

[Jeremiahwestendorf]

I believe improperly towed, and possibly even with the transfer case engaged.

 

[M37keppy]

Getting ready to separate this one from a junk motor. 36 inches bellhouseing to output flange.

 

[DUUANE]

View attachment 728820 Getting ready to separate this one from a junk motor. 36 inches bellhouseing to output flange.

Thank you very very much..when you get it off could you please put the tape across the widest part of the bellhousing?
I need the width as well. Probably the flywheelhousing side including the starter bump.

 

[M37keppy]

Easy I got an old rusyt take off on the shelf.

 

[DUUANE]

Thats awesome thanks..sorry for the hijack..i need 20" for the sae #2 housing to clear..now i have a reference to work from with my power pak still in the truck..many many thanks!!

 

[rustystud]

I believe improperly towed, and possibly even with the transfer case engaged.

I wonder if the transfer-case was in low gear at the time ? That much damage would mean that transmission was spinning pretty fast. The rear oil pump provides plenty of oil at low speeds. That is how you can actually push start an engine with a Hydra-Matic behind it. The average Hydra-Matic can safely handle being towed up to 20 mph. I know as I towed plenty back in the day. Now if the tow truck operator towed it above that with the transfer-case in low, that would average out to be around 40 mph and above. That would mean not only was the transmission out of oil but it was pushing the engine over also so the strain was tremendous ! Of course if the transfer-case was in high but the truck was towed at 40 mph or above, it would have the same effect. A destroyed transmission.

 

[Jeremiahwestendorf]

I wonder if the transfer-case was in low gear at the time ? That much damage would mean that transmission was spinning pretty fast. The rear oil pump provides plenty of oil at low speeds. That is how you can actually push start an engine with a Hydra-Matic behind it. The average Hydra-Matic can safely handle being towed up to 20 mph. I know as I towed plenty back in the day. Now if the tow truck operator towed it above that with the transfer-case in low, that would average out to be around 40 mph and above. That would mean not only was the transmission out of oil but it was pushing the engine over also so the strain was tremendous ! Of course if the transfer-case was in high but the truck was towed at 40 mph or above, it would have the same effect. A destroyed transmission.

The guy I got it from was showing me what to do to tow it and he shoved the transfer case lever down and said that it's in neutral now, and that you can tow it like that. The front tires were spinning, but I don't think the motor was spinning when the driver pulled out, when we got it home, I pushed the lever down a couple more inches and possibly disengaging it completely. The transmission could have been destroyed before I even got the truck, the previous owner lied about a lot of things. I gave him scrap price for the truck and he paid for the tow, he was unloading it.