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M146 RV Conversion

steelypip

Active member
769
68
28
Location
Charlottesville, VA
LP made a lot of sense back in the day when electricity was an awkward thing to manage in an RV. Now, small electric refrigerators are very efficient and draw very little power and inverters are drastically cheaper, better, and more efficient than they used to be. Also, most people seldom camp in the rough, which means that electricity is usually available where you pull in for the night.

Having an off-road capable RV changes the equation a little. But I still think I'd do what my dad did and pull the LP fridge out of the RV (it died) and replace with an electric fridge. They can be had in AC/DC models now, too, if you are willing to spend a little more money to avoid having to run the inverter if you don't have shore power.

Probably the only two LP appliances I'd positively recommend are the water heater (hot water is right behind indoor plumbing in the list of things that make civilization worth putting up with) and an LP heater/furnace big enough to keep it comfy at 20 F or so. Whether or not you want a multi-burner LP cooktop depends entirely on how often you expect to get three hot squares in your day when living in the RV. My parents have both the original cooktop and LP oven in their vintage RV, but they tend to use them seldom. They eat sandwiches a lot, and have installed a microwave for heating soup, tea, coffee, etc. The other item they use a lot is one of the tabletop plug-in icemakers. It's an energy hog, but cubed ice is a very nice thing in summer....

I know other people with similar RVs who have elected to pull the cooktop and oven out entirely and make their coffee with one of the little tabletop gas burners to save weight and cubage. It's all about lifestyle choices.

As his is a vintage RV, air conditioning was a difficult thing to add. The good news was that it had a roof-mount 120 VAC air conditioner, so his solution was to get a small 2.5 KW generator and use that to run whatever electrical stuff he desires when underway. It's strong enough to run the AC and anything else they're likely to need, and it has the significant advantage of already being there if you need to charge the deep cycle back up or want to run the icemaker without shore power. The rule of thumb here is to buy the smallest generator that will run your biggest single load. Smaller is lighter, quieter, and more efficient and you can always shed loads to get down to what it will run (you're camping, remember?).

My experience with the LP fridges is that they're not all that reliable and that they don't keep food cold all that well. YMMV.

Given the amount of roof area that trailer has, I would think that solar panels would be a great idea - be forwarned, though that they get hot, so you'll want some air gap or plenty insulation between them and the ceiling. You'd probably have enough solar power to run the fridge without discharging the battery during daylight hours. Nice.
 
Last edited:

Bighurt

New member
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Location
Minot, ND
I respecfully disagree with the removal of a LP powered Fridge. Mine is dual powered and I rarely use it powered under LP. Infact it only gets used in that fashion when I'm on the road (yes you aren't supposed to do that) mid summer.

However a 12 volt fridge will kill a 12 volt deep cycle battery pretty quick. If your remote without a genny, I think havngthe LP option is very viable.

Your mileage may differ.

Just my honest opinion.
 
1,540
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0
Location
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
I would opt out of a traditional oven and instead use a microwave/convection oven. This would save space and get two appliances in the place of one. The downside is you would have to run the generator to power it or have a large enough inverter. A small gas cook top, sink, and microwave/convection oven you can cook just about anything you may want. Bring along an outdoor grill gas or charcoal and you have even more ways to cook.

With the generator I would look for a propane genset this way you dont not have to carry gas and they tend to be quieter. If you cant find a propane one that you want a diesel genset would be my next choice and at least if carry extra fuel for it you can also use it in the tractor. Depending on your weight considerations a large deep cell battery bank could also offset how often you will have to run the genset and if you supplement with solar and watch your consumption you may not need to run the genset at all.

Once you figure out the amount of electronics and there power load you should be able to calculate the most efficient way to power everything. A combination of all three would be my choice it not only to give you efficiency but also redundancy. Which is also the reason id want a fridge that can run on 3 different power sources, for redundancy.

Depending on your plans you may also want to rethink your fresh and waste water. If you plan to be away from civilization for weeks at a time replacing the black water tolite with a composting or "dry" tolite may make more sense and using the space the black water tank would take up for more fresh water storage. Depending on where you are and the local laws your gray water (from sinks, shower) may be able to be let out onto the ground.

Also another great RV appliance is a compact all in one washer/dryer. I would also get a flat screen tv that has a low enough draw to run off of 12 volt
 

Bighurt

New member
2,347
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0
Location
Minot, ND
I have to say I was heavily critized for buying a fiver with a 32" LCD...

But it's the best babysitter during foul weather and after lights out...

I also concure with the composting toilet.
 

RAYZER

Well-known member
3,380
59
48
Location
sanford/florida
I did look into the natures head composting toilet and holly crap (lol) the price on these!However I do like the idea of extra water storage instead of a black tank.
 

oldMan99

Member
479
12
18
Location
Polk County, Florida
I have to say I agree with almost everything here.... See below for some additional comments..

LP made a lot of sense back in the day when electricity was an awkward thing to manage in an RV. Now, small electric refrigerators are very efficient and draw very little power and inverters are drastically cheaper, better, and more efficient than they used to be. Also, most people seldom camp in the rough, which means that electricity is usually available where you pull in for the night.


Having an off-road capable RV changes the equation a little. But I still think I'd do what my dad did and pull the LP fridge out of the RV (it died) and replace with an electric fridge. They can be had in AC/DC models now, too, if you are willing to spend a little more money to avoid having to run the inverter if you don't have shore power.
The RV 3 way (12vdc/110vac/LP) refrigerators are expensive to purchase, tempermental to opperate, expensive to repair and for the square footage that take up offer a relatively small inside storage. The freezer section is usually slightly more than a joke and the refrigerator sections are not able to get my beer cold enough no matter how long I leave it in there. The combination voltage units (110/12v) are a step in the right direction but still, they are more expensive to both purchase and repair. A good modern HIGH EFFICIENCY 110vac unit is (IMHO) the way to go for a project like this. As most of those who live in hurricane prone areas can tell you, if you run the temp control to max cold and limit the door opening/closing you can easily maintain food safe temperatures inside both the fridge and freezer for 24 hours w/o power. More on this later.

Probably the only two LP appliances I'd positively recommend are the water heater (hot water is right behind indoor plumbing in the list of things that make civilization worth putting up with) and an LP heater/furnace big enough to keep it comfy at 20 F or so. Whether or not you want a multi-burner LP cooktop depends entirely on how often you expect to get three hot squares in your day when living in the RV. My parents have both the original cooktop and LP oven in their vintage RV, but they tend to use them seldom. They eat sandwiches a lot, and have installed a microwave for heating soup, tea, coffee, etc. The other item they use a lot is one of the tabletop plug-in icemakers. It's an energy hog, but cubed ice is a very nice thing in summer....
Agreed. For hot water seriously consider a LP instant/tankless unit. far more efficient and uses less LP. In my last RV I had a separate built in ice maker. Having an ice maker in a RV sounds extravagant but once you have had one, it is like a cell phone, you don't know how you got along w/o one...lol.. (And if you get a 110vac refrigerator, you can get one with a built in ice maker for about $100 more than one w/o!)

I know other people with similar RVs who have elected to pull the cooktop and oven out entirely and make their coffee with one of the little tabletop gas burners to save weight and cubage. It's all about lifestyle choices.
Again, Agreed. I like having the option to use the stove/oven when/if I want. The oven is not used nearly as much as the stove, but it is still nice having one.

As his is a vintage RV, air conditioning was a difficult thing to add. The good news was that it had a roof-mount 120 VAC air conditioner, so his solution was to get a small 2.5 KW generator and use that to run whatever electrical stuff he desires when underway. It's strong enough to run the AC and anything else they're likely to need, and it has the significant advantage of already being there if you need to charge the deep cycle back up or want to run the icemaker without shore power. The rule of thumb here is to buy the smallest generator that will run your biggest single load. Smaller is lighter, quieter, and more efficient and you can always shed loads to get down to what it will run (you're camping, remember?).
OK, Here we have a difference of opinions/plans. While the above certainly will work I prefer a much different approach.

I hate playing the "What can I turn on now" game when on generator. I also like to not run the generator as much as practical. With a large enough bank of QUALITY DEEP CYCLE batteries and a quality, efficient inverter you can run the unit (Including the A/C) for 4-6 hours without the generator. While driving the truck charges the "House" batteries and keeps them up. This keeps the refrigerator going just fine while under way and your probably not running much else back there. A generator that can run the combined load of: A/C, refrigerator, TV, microwave and a few lights is what I want. A 6,000 watt (6kw) gen will run 2 roof A/C units and the rest of the items on that list with some power to spare. A 10,000 watt (10kw) unit will run 3 roof A/C units and everything on that list with slightly more to spare than the 6kw with 2 A/C units. A good DIESEL generator in the 6-10 kw range will not use considerably more fuel than a smaller unit and allows much more flexibility. THe plan here is to run the RV from either shore power or the inverter. The generator will be set to start and stop automatically depending on battery charge level. When the gen is running it powers everything, allowing the batteries to charge rapidly (usually 60-90 minutes) and then your good to go for another 4-6 hours of inverter time. Using this plan you can run about whatever you want to and only have the generator running 3-4 times a day for 60-90 minutes each time. It just takes a large enough battery bank. If you don't want/need to run an A/C unit you can use a much smaller battery bank, charger and generator. Personally, I can't do w/o A/C.

My experience with the LP fridges is that they're not all that reliable and that they don't keep food cold all that well. YMMV.
Agree 100% (See above)

Given the amount of roof area that trailer has, I would think that solar panels would be a great idea - be forwarned, though that they get hot, so you'll want some air gap or plenty insulation between them and the ceiling. You'd probably have enough solar power to run the fridge without discharging the battery during daylight hours. Nice.
Agree... sort of... A solar bank large enough to really make a difference will cost $4-5,000. Keep in mind that for solar panels to work at anything even close to maximum efficiency they must be aimed at the sun, not simply bolted to a flat roof pointing straight up. The loss of panel efficiency in a flat install like a RV roof, depending on the time of year and your geographical location can be as much as 60%. that means your expensive panels are only working at 40% of their rated capacity. To make matters worse, (For me anyway) when I camp if there is a shady spot for me to put the RV in, that is where I'll be. Of course then your expensive solar panels are little more than glass covered roof-over panels. If your serious about solar, spend some serious time on the various solar power internet boards and do some extensive research about how they really work in the real world, not how some salesman wants to make you think they work. A couple large pannels on the roof to help maintain the batteries when the RV is parked and not in use, sure. Enough to actually make a difference in running the RV? Not so much.

Generator Fuel Choice:
LP, Gasoline, Diesel

LP: If your going to run a generator on LP your going to need a lot of LP. This means a big tank or several big tanks or a crap load of BBQ tanks.

Gasoline: A reasonable alternative, but if your prime mover is diesel powered why add another fuel type to the loading requirements? Also, do you really want to have to maneuver that rig over to the gas pumps at most gas stations?

Diesel: For me really a no brainer when the prime mover is diesel powered.

If I was going to use a portable generator instead of a RV type installed one I would do more research into and consider one of the LP/Diesel/Gas units available from Northern Hydraulic. NorthStar Trifuel Generator — 390cc, 8000 Surge Watts, 6600 Rated Watts | 7,000 - 9,999 Watts | Northern Tool + Equipment Of course I'm not sure you can set this up for auto-start/stop but the fuel choice flexibility (Especially for somebody with a multifuel Deuce) should be obvious.

TV: If you have satellite TV at home you can add the RV just like another room for about $7/month. If you already pay $75-100/month for cable, it might be hard to justify adding another $75-100 for a sat TV for the RV.

Phone/emergency communications: If your going to be in remote areas that have little or no cell coverage (Like just about any State or National Park or Forrest) consider purchasing a satellite phone. Sounds expensive and compared to a cell it is. But, what is your life or the life of a loved one worth? You can get the basic equipment (That looks/works almost exactly like a large (think 10 year old) cell phone for $400-800 and monthly service (some that you can turn on/off anytime) for as little as $20/month. The per minute charge is usually between $1.00 and $2.00 (Per minute) but when your calling for parts for your broken truck or a life flight helicopter for a sick/injures loved one, $2.00/minute is a bargain. Of course just like cell phones, plan rates vary by company quite a bit so shopping pays off big time. If anybody is interested I do have a business card for a company that offers both reasonably priced equipment and plans. I would post it now but the card is at home and I am not.

There is also the "SPOT" satellite device that is very affordable and could come in very handy. SPOT SATELLITE MESSENGER :: HOME PAGE

Hope this helps...
 

Tow4

Well-known member
Steel Soldiers Supporter
2,096
646
113
Location
Orlando, FL
Lots of good replies here; I'll add my .02 cents.

Last year we (wife, dog and I) took a three month RV trip. Before that we have taken trips of one to three weeks. We have been RVers for about 7 years recently and have been tent camping prior to that. My wife and I have had other RVs in our past. Our current RV is a 2004 28' Airstream that we bought new in 2004.

The combo (gas and AC) refrigerator works very well and we have no problem keeping things cold. The freezer is big enough to be useful and freezes ice cubes with no problem. We use ice trays and fill them ourselves. The thing to remember with RV refrigerators is they typically have a slow cooling cycle. That means it takes them a long time to get cold if you keep opening the door and letting out the cold air. They are very efficent and will run for months on the 30 lb tank. Ours switches to AC automatically when we are plugged in AC power, or I can manually select the operation mode.

The water heater is also gas and AC. When we are dry camping (no hook ups of either power or water) the water heater stays off. The water heater is only on when we need to wash dishes or shower.

The toilet is your typical RV pot; a Thetford, and uses little water. The black water tank is about 30 gallons. The two of us can easily make it a week and usually 10 to 12 days. Since 14 days is the limit in most national parks, that's perfect and we dump on the way out.

The grey water tank is in the 30 gallon range too and it will go a couple of days with both of us taking showers everyday. Depending on where we are I dump it on the ground or take it to the RV dump station. I use the plastic tote box I store the sewer hose in to move the grey water when necessary.

The potable water tank is about 54 gallons. We use about 15 gallons of water a day. I have a couple of 6 gallon water jugs that I use to refill the tank while we are camping.

We have a gas range and oven. We have used the oven a few times. The range gets used regularly.

The most useful cooking appliance is the microwave. We use it all the time.

For coffee, we have a 120V electric coffee maker. Most campgrounds have time limits when you can run generators. I installed a 120V AC inverter so I can have my coffee early. It will run the coffee maker long enough to make coffee but it really takes the house batteries down fast.

Getting power, I have a Honda 2000i generator. It will not run the heat pump. I borrow my brother's 2000i (you can parrallel the 2000i and run two together) if we need to run the AC. Almost all our camping on the 3 month trip was "dry camping" with no hook ups. I run the generator for 2 to 3 hours in the morning and about 3 hours in the evening. When the generator is running, the hot water heater is on (if needed) unless we are making coffee. Those are the two highest electrical loads. I run the hot water heater on AC (when the generator is running) to save propane when I can. If I have been using the inverter to make coffee, I run the generator an extra hour or two in the evening. We typically go through about 0.75 gallons of gasoline a day for the generator.

Heating and cooling is a heatpump. We also have a gas furnace. Most of our trips are in the fall and we don't need much air conditioning. The furnace does get used a lot. I learned that you will go through a 30 lb propane tank real fast if you set the temp to 70 degrees when it's in the 30's outside. If you set the temp to 62~64 while sleeping, you cut the gas usage down by about 2/3. I typically use 1/8 tank a day running the furnace, WH, refrigerator, etc. We go two weeks on 2 30 lb propane tanks.

I'm pretty happy with things the way they are, I plan on adding a solar cell in the future to help charge the house batteries during the day.

For the M146.

If you have room, more batteries are good. The weight is not as much of a consideration in the M146 since you are going to have plenty of extra load carrying capacity. Two would be the minimum, four are better.

Generator: A quiet generator is good; if it is running, neither you or your neighbors want to listen to it. Bigger is better. The inverter generators are quiet and efficient. Don't let fuel type bother you; go for what works the best. My mind may change when I find a diesel chain saw I can lift.

Potable water and waste tanks: Water is 8 lbs a gallon. You have a lot of room and weight capacity; make them big. If you are camping where there is no dump station; keep in mind a lot of rest areas have dump stations, you can get rid of the waste later. You don't want to have to mess with it during an event. You don't want to run out of fresh water either.

Furnace and AC: I would get a heat pump and propane furnace.

Water heater: I would check into the instant heat type. You want the propane type. The AC versions are big amps.

Appliances: Flip a coin. I would go with the RV style if I was going to do weeks at a time on the road with a lot of time in campgrounds without hookups. Lots of batteries and an inverter to run home type appliances is ok for the short term. More batteries means a bigger generator and/or longer run time to recharge them. All that equals more fuel and weight to carry. Keep in mind that the big invertors pull several amps even with no load.

The M146 is looking good Ray, I'm looking forward to seeing it in person.

Oh yeah, you should rename this thread "M146 Command Center Conversion".[thumbzup] The current title makes it sound like you are turning a cool MV into a civi vehicle...:drool:

Ray
 

ODDBALL007

New member
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5
0
Location
GENEVA FLORIDA
Lots of good replies here; I'll add my .02 cents.

Last year we (wife, dog and I) took a three month RV trip. Before that we have taken trips of one to three weeks. We have been RVers for about 7 years recently and have been tent camping prior to that. My wife and I have had other RVs in our past. Our current RV is a 2004 28' Airstream that we bought new in 2004.

The combo (gas and AC) refrigerator works very well and we have no problem keeping things cold. The freezer is big enough to be useful and freezes ice cubes with no problem. We use ice trays and fill them ourselves. The thing to remember with RV refrigerators is they typically have a slow cooling cycle. That means it takes them a long time to get cold if you keep opening the door and letting out the cold air. They are very efficent and will run for months on the 30 lb tank. Ours switches to AC automatically when we are plugged in AC power, or I can manually select the operation mode.

The water heater is also gas and AC. When we are dry camping (no hook ups of either power or water) the water heater stays off. The water heater is only on when we need to wash dishes or shower.

The toilet is your typical RV pot; a Thetford, and uses little water. The black water tank is about 30 gallons. The two of us can easily make it a week and usually 10 to 12 days. Since 14 days is the limit in most national parks, that's perfect and we dump on the way out.

The grey water tank is in the 30 gallon range too and it will go a couple of days with both of us taking showers everyday. Depending on where we are I dump it on the ground or take it to the RV dump station. I use the plastic tote box I store the sewer hose in to move the grey water when necessary.

The potable water tank is about 54 gallons. We use about 15 gallons of water a day. I have a couple of 6 gallon water jugs that I use to refill the tank while we are camping.

We have a gas range and oven. We have used the oven a few times. The range gets used regularly.

The most useful cooking appliance is the microwave. We use it all the time.

For coffee, we have a 120V electric coffee maker. Most campgrounds have time limits when you can run generators. I installed a 120V AC inverter so I can have my coffee early. It will run the coffee maker long enough to make coffee but it really takes the house batteries down fast.

Getting power, I have a Honda 2000i generator. It will not run the heat pump. I borrow my brother's 2000i (you can parrallel the 2000i and run two together) if we need to run the AC. Almost all our camping on the 3 month trip was "dry camping" with no hook ups. I run the generator for 2 to 3 hours in the morning and about 3 hours in the evening. When the generator is running, the hot water heater is on (if needed) unless we are making coffee. Those are the two highest electrical loads. I run the hot water heater on AC (when the generator is running) to save propane when I can. If I have been using the inverter to make coffee, I run the generator an extra hour or two in the evening. We typically go through about 0.75 gallons of gasoline a day for the generator.

Heating and cooling is a heatpump. We also have a gas furnace. Most of our trips are in the fall and we don't need much air conditioning. The furnace does get used a lot. I learned that you will go through a 30 lb propane tank real fast if you set the temp to 70 degrees when it's in the 30's outside. If you set the temp to 62~64 while sleeping, you cut the gas usage down by about 2/3. I typically use 1/8 tank a day running the furnace, WH, refrigerator, etc. We go two weeks on 2 30 lb propane tanks.

I'm pretty happy with things the way they are, I plan on adding a solar cell in the future to help charge the house batteries during the day.

For the M146.

If you have room, more batteries are good. The weight is not as much of a consideration in the M146 since you are going to have plenty of extra load carrying capacity. Two would be the minimum, four are better.

Generator: A quiet generator is good; if it is running, neither you or your neighbors want to listen to it. Bigger is better. The inverter generators are quiet and efficient. Don't let fuel type bother you; go for what works the best. My mind may change when I find a diesel chain saw I can lift.

Potable water and waste tanks: Water is 8 lbs a gallon. You have a lot of room and weight capacity; make them big. If you are camping where there is no dump station; keep in mind a lot of rest areas have dump stations, you can get rid of the waste later. You don't want to have to mess with it during an event. You don't want to run out of fresh water either.

Furnace and AC: I would get a heat pump and propane furnace.

Water heater: I would check into the instant heat type. You want the propane type. The AC versions are big amps.

Appliances: Flip a coin. I would go with the RV style if I was going to do weeks at a time on the road with a lot of time in campgrounds without hookups. Lots of batteries and an inverter to run home type appliances is ok for the short term. More batteries means a bigger generator and/or longer run time to recharge them. All that equals more fuel and weight to carry. Keep in mind that the big invertors pull several amps even with no load.

The M146 is looking good Ray, I'm looking forward to seeing it in person.

Oh yeah, you should rename this thread "M146 Command Center Conversion".[thumbzup] The current title makes it sound like you are turning a cool MV into a civi vehicle...:drool:

Ray
ray did u add 2 cents or 20 bucks lol. i agree with the name change too:ditto:
 

RAYZER

Well-known member
3,380
59
48
Location
sanford/florida
I would like to thank everyone for thier comments and ideas so far! I am certainly closer to deciding on what options I want to incorporate into this project.She's coming along nicely!
 

RAYZER

Well-known member
3,380
59
48
Location
sanford/florida
I have access to this new RV tub/shower cheap and it will fit the space that i have available.should i use this tub or just go with a shower pan to save some space? would having a tub be an advantage?
 

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RAYZER

Well-known member
3,380
59
48
Location
sanford/florida
I have decided to go with a 8000 btu window ac unit with remote mounted through the front bulkhead,i have the opening framed in using 2"x2" allum pool screen encloser material, i am now working on the exterior supports and attatcment frame for the unit and it will have a slanted cover over it with front and sides to keep the water out. although i think a roof air unit might be better,my reasoning is, i can replace this window unit for under $175.00 from any lowes or hd if it should ever go bad, and the differance between the price of it and a $800.00 roof air will go a long way toward some other things needed. I hope this unit is big enough, were about to find out!
 

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srodocker

Well-known member
6,549
69
48
Location
Lacey, Washington
I found a really compact AC unit at Big Lots and i was thinking of hanging it the tail end wall and putting a cover on it for when im towing it and such
 
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