M211 build, guidance appreciated...

[m1010plowboy]

I tried the acetone / trans fluid mix and it works great.

Sweet truck. You've got something odd, cool and groovy going on with it. It has a M135 box but you said it had dually's. The American trucks 211, 215, 220, 221 and the tank trucks had dually's. The 135 had singles.

Let's hope someone added the 135 box onto a sassy M220 M211 frame. Check the side of the frame behind the passenger, front wheel and see if it's stamped 211XXXXX.....or 220XXXXXX. If it starts with 135XXXX.......someone stuck two wheels together and threw them on. You may have the correct 135 off-sets but something looks odd.

SeanO11 grabbed some 11.00 - 20's from the right side of the map when he grabbed an M81X many moons ago. That supplier gave us a deal that no one should get so I'll pull Sean off his fiancee and ask....who dun it. He's an amazing fella, who ever he is.

The rim, depth "Offset" on the dual set up is less than the M135. That kept the rubber on the dual trucks flush with the box. If you add and flip a 135 rim into duallys, the rubber sticks out a long way past the 135 box. Ensuring you have the 'freshest' rims and rubber sounds like a mission. I just got back from a cold, dark run in my 135 and despite the challenges, they are 6 ton 'o' fun. Hope you get to the finish line.

 

[hendersond]

Where in NE WY are you exactly?
Does it have a tailgate?

Looks like a M211 chassis to me because of the rear hub protrusion

 

[Hondo76251]

It has a M135 box but you said it had dually's. The American trucks 211, 215, 220, 221 and the tank trucks had dually's. The 135 had singles.Check the side of the frame behind the passenger, front wheel and see if it's stamped 211XXXXX.....or 220XXXXXX. If it starts with 135XXXX.......someone stuck two wheels together and threw them on. You may have the correct 135 off-sets but something looks odd... Hope you get to the finish line.

Thanks!

The Frame says 211...

I don't have the enough rims/tires to dual it back up. Its been run with just the inside duals for as long as I can remember, since back in its firetruck days...

I think it would look better, at least for now, to run the rear duals the other way if possible...

 

[Hondo76251]

Where in NE WY are you exactly?
Does it have a tailgate? Looks like a M211 chassis to me because of the rear hub protrusion

I live right near the 3 state corner, so as NE as Wyoming gets...

It does have a tailgate, but I'm planning on putting a flatbed with a lift off of a '59 F600 onto it rather than the military box... so I'm definitely not going with a parts correct restoration... this old girl is going to be put to work!

 

[maccus]

Do you have any plans for the box. I am looking around here for a M34 Studebaker and I am sure more than likely it would need a good box.

 

[Hondo76251]

I'm sure I could be convinced to part with it, but realistically, I'm 9- 12 months from putting the flatbed on... I did, however, find this on craigslist...
http://rapidcity.craigslist.org/cto/5234835341.html.
Lookslike it has an old military box on a Ford truck...

 

[M543A2]

Any of these trucks will go through more snow and mud with singles on the rear instead of duals. The hubs are reversed on the axles depending if the truck was made for singles or duals. Reversed the wheel seating face on the hub is farther out to get a wider stance with the singles. The singles rims also do not have as much offset as the dual rims. I would not try to dual up with singles rims. The tires will be too close together given you can even get them mounted together. Given yours was a 211 unless someone reversed them the longer side of the hubs should now be outward.

 

[maccus]

I'm sure I could be convinced to part with it, but realistically, I'm 9- 12 months from putting the flatbed on... I did, however, find this on craigslist...
http://rapidcity.craigslist.org/cto/5234835341.html.
Lookslike it has an old military box on a Ford truck...

Thanks for the info on the local box. I need to find a 52-53 Studebaker cab and chassis first so it will take me a while also before I really need a box. Keep me in mind however. TKS

 

[Hondo76251]

Any of these trucks will go through more snow and mud with singles on the rear instead of duals...

Agreed, have no intentions of going back to duals. I just don't like the way the rear tires don't track with the front. I'll have to take some measurements to be sure, but I don't know yet if I have single or dual rims. Im pretty sure that the rear axle hubs are set for duals just by the looks of it...

 

[hendersond]

Just remember on the GMC you cannot just flip hubs, backing plates and the dish is deeper on the drums are different between a M211 and M134. Don't confuse these with the M35.

You have a M211 with M135 wheels and a M135 box.

 

[Hondo76251]

...You have a M211 with M135 wheels and a M135 box.

I'm still new with these rigs but I think I'm picking up the idea...

So can I run the rear tires the other way so the track width is more like the front?

 

[topo]

The M135 wheels can only be run the way they are the lug bolt holes are only tappers on one side of the wheel.

 

[hendersond]

I'd flip them just to see how it looks. I suspect most of the load will be on the outer bearing if you did flip them. And take some pictures!

 

[Hondo76251]

The M135 wheels can only be run the way they are the lug bolt holes are only tappers on one side of the wheel.

I was thinking carbide grinder...

 

[USMC 00-08]

If those are M135 wheels, don't grind them. I'd trade you some M211 wheels for those.

You'll know when you take them off. If they have the taper on both sides, they are for M211 or M35.

 

[Hondo76251]

The 6 hole dual wheels off of my other 50's trucks would fit wouldn't they?

 

[hendersond]

They should if it is military

 

[Hondo76251]

Nope, F600...

 

[snowyrivers]

Congrats on wanting to tackle a re--power on the M211

I see your plan included using a 700R4 tranny.

I have been around the 700R since they introduced them in the early 80's and sadly these gearboxes are pretty dismal.

Used in a small vehicle (light weight) with modest power they are not too bad.

When they were introduced into the pickup and SUV lines they were a nightmare.

The issues start with the fact that they are a VERY TINY transmission inside, with very small clutches, planetary sets and such.

The real early ones had a small input shaft with enough passages in it to rival Swiss cheese, and would break easily.
The converter is small and unless it is a custom built job is just way too small for the task.

The sprags are weak, as is the 2-4 band.
The sun shell is notorious for tearing the splined hub out. (A replacement called the BEAST is a good fix)

The valve body is alloy and does not tolerate much in the way of dirt, metal and crud, all of which these trannies seem to make bunches of.

The 2-4 band is weak and snaps easily or burns up.

All the clutch packs are small and have too few frictions and steel plates in them for anything serious in the way of hard work.

The TV system is very fussy and if not set perfectly will result in a burn up due to low line pressures.

The 700R was a design conjured up to fill the need for "C A F E" numbers (mileage) and that was about it.

Back in the day, the 6.2 would rattle one of these boxes apart fairly quick, and longevity was not a strong point.

To get a 700R to hold up in any type of rough use is a long shot anyway but $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ in copious quantities needs to be applied.

The last 700R I built (I bought parts wholesale and did the bench work myself) cost a Grand plus

Building a decent 700 for a K Blazer or 1500 4x4 Burb is doable but if it's gonna see severe duty (Bad A$$ wheeling) it's ifffffy.

The ones built after 86 were better and the ones made just before they went to the electronics are the best, but they still need loads of loving.

To install one in the Deuce is gonna leave you disappointed quickly.

The 700 was a 1/2 ton only trans and the Deuce will be in the range of #8000 pounds easily even without loading it up.

The idea of an overdrive tranny is a good one, but the 700R is not gonna leave you warm and fuzzy.

I hate to toss cold water on the campfire, but the truth will better serve you.

Our M211 project is a re-power as well and it's getting a Turbo 400, likely with a gearvendors OD on the back end.

There are few choices for OD autos that will bolt up to to 6.2 that don't require a computer to run them.

I considered a 47RH Mopar box but getting it to snuggle up to the GM engine is a real exercise, one that is gonna be $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and problematic.

The TH 400 was used extensively in the GM truck lines and can handle a BIG load easily.
The 6.2 was fitted with them in 3/4 ton and up applications.
A vacuum control valve for the injector pump is needed (easy find) and this manages the vacuum from the vacuum pump and controls the modulator on the tranny.


Hope this info can save you from a lot of heartache as you proceed on your project.

Snowy

 

[Hondo76251]

Congrats on wanting to tackle a re--power on the M211. I see your plan included using a 700R4 tranny. I have been around the 700R since they introduced them in the early 80's and sadly these gearboxes are pretty dismal...

I'm not overly partial to the 700r4, or slush boxes in general, but I've got one that's got less than 5k miles on a quality rebuild that was in an '87 3/4 ton suburban. The the old 6.2 spun a bearing shortly after we had the trans rebuilt. I have $1400 in the tranny but the truck is only worth $300 on a good day so I figured I'd go ahead and use it for parts... I nearly convinced myself to put the 700 into my CUCV but, aside from a nice highway gear, that seemed like too much of a downgrade for a vehicle that gets abused like it does...

I've toyed with the idea of a reverse pattern manual valve body. That would cure the TV worries. I'll be putting the transfer case in with it so I can drop her in granny.

I think I'll install a deep sump pan, an aux trans cooler, a separate fan, and I'll be using LOW range a lot...

I know the 700 probably isn't ideal but that suburban took a lot of serious abuse before the trans let go the first time. I think if I don't set out to hammer the snot out of it she'll hold up a while... if not, I'll be in the market for a good 400!