M35A1 v M35A2

[Two Dogs]

I am looking to purchase a deuce and would value opinions on the differences between A1 and A2. ie Power and speed differences between 427 and 465 engines and auto front axle engagement , particularly how do you control disengagement. Sorry if these seem obvious but all my previous experience has been with WW2 military vehicles and commercial haulage vehicles.

 

[BFR]

The sprag transfer case engages and disengages based a speed difference between the fron and rear outputs. If the rear shaft spins faster than the front it engages and if the the speeds are equal it disengages. there is a small shaft that runs from the transmission from the transfer that controls whether the forward or reverse setup is being used.

Also, I have seen several A2 deuces that had the sprag transfer case so a2 doesn't automatically equal airshift case.

 

[NDT]

M35A1s are very hard to find with a 427 engine. The engine never got any upgrades and is a smoky fella, which of course is not a bad thing.

 

[Two Dogs]

M35A1s are very hard to find with a 427 engine. The engine never got any upgrades and is a smoky fella, which of course is not a bad thing.

The M35A1 which I am considering is fitted with a Hercules 427, it was one of a number imported from mainland Europe in 2002 , is ex USAF and shows only 7000 miles from new. Since being imported it has not seen any use which resulted in it deteriorating but the present owner has refurbished it with a lot of new parts especially renewal of a lot of brake parts. He did mention smoke on start up but that it clears very quickly and then runs clean, we will see when I try the truck next week. Is the 427 engine down on power much against the 465 and what is the performance difference? Thank you in advance for any help or advice anybody can offer.

 

[armytruck63]

I've heard that the LDS 427 engines are "bad", though no one has ever explained to me why.

Everybody and their uncle owns an M35A2, so I think it would be neat to own and M35A1.

 

[Two Dogs]

The sprag transfer case engages and disengages based a speed difference between the fron and rear outputs. If the rear shaft spins faster than the front it engages and if the the speeds are equal it disengages. there is a small shaft that runs from the transmission from the transfer that controls whether the forward or reverse setup is being used.

Also, I have seen several A2 deuces that had the sprag transfer case so a2 doesn't automatically equal airshift case.

Thank you for that. The main reason I am querying this is because my son's farm where it will live is at the top of a long steep hill on a narrow single track road which includes two hairpin bends with very difficult cambers , the gradient is between 25% and 33%. From your description it would seem that as long as it disengages correctly I should have no problems but how would I check for correct operation when I go next week to try the vehicle. Thanks in advance for any help or advice anybody can offer.

 

[emr]

I have heard that the 427's were real runners, as for bad , the only poblem with them was the head gasket that was a noticable thing that alot of the engines had trouble with, BUT not all, there are quite a few running strong, i do not think U will find a big difference at all in any..., they are also a superturbo I have heard it called from thenewMv guy, Scot, He was eying the one in the crate at my shop, there is a way bigger ram air type thingy that shure must push an aweful lot of air, its bigger than any on a 465, In my opinion it is also very much a cool factor to have something different than the deuce next to U at a show or event, As for the smoke, the turbo on those and the 465's are there to sqwash the smoke, and they work, I would not worry about that either. so the head gasket is the only thing that these motors were known to have trouble with, and to be honest, Just about none of us are ever going to push these trucks that hard that long, go for it, an Airforce truck is always the one to get, Well taken care of and maintained, and just not used......All the best in whatever U do...Randy

 

[scooter01922]

I've heard that the LDS 427 engines are "bad", though no one has ever explained to me why.

Everybody and their uncle owns an M35A2, so I think it would be neat to own and M35A1.

I haven't really gotten a ton of info on this either although i have been looking. Especially since i got the M35A1 with the 427. From talking to those who know( lets hope they chime in here) it seems they had some overheating issues which can lead to problems with cracked heads. I'm guessing that some of that issue stems from the tuneing of the engine itself. Its lower in displacement but makes more HP than the 465 at stock settings. That big turbo on there is for power and not to clean up emissions like the 465. Also as a result i have been told to expect mass quantities of smoke as a part of normal operations. I'm rather looking forward to that though, so its all good. More HP and more smoke at the expense of a little more PM and attention to detail to keep it cool. Nice find on the M35A1 by the way, just not that many around with the 427.

 

[Two Dogs]

Thank you for that Randy. Everybody over here seems to want the A2 whistler but I was advised by a friend who has an A2 non whistler to go for the non whistler because of the bigger turbo. unfortunately he could not really advise me on the 427 engine as he has not had experience of it. It surprises me that if the head gasket fault was common that it was not investigated and a mod introduced, that would certainly be the case over here but with the snail like speed of the authorities by the time they have sorted it the vehicles are usually obsolete

 

[Two Dogs]

I haven't really gotten a ton of info on this either although i have been looking. Especially since i got the M35A1 with the 427. From talking to those who know( lets hope they chime in here) it seems they had some overheating issues which can lead to problems with cracked heads. I'm guessing that some of that issue stems from the tuneing of the engine itself. Its lower in displacement but makes more HP than the 465 at stock settings. That big turbo on there is for power and not to clean up emissions like the 465. Also as a result i have been told to expect mass quantities of smoke as a part of normal operations. I'm rather looking forward to that though, so its all good. More HP and more smoke at the expense of a little more PM and attention to detail to keep it cool. Nice find on the M35A1 by the way, just not that many around with the 427.

Thanks Scooter, going by experience of vehicles manufactured over here I am not too worried after your comments as obviously the truck will only be used to carry personal effects the weight carried will be negligible. Also I have no intention of pushing the performance to the limit and will be quite happy for it to cruise at 45 to 50 mph which I have been lead to believe is reasonable. Another point in it's favour is that normally we do not experience the high temperatures which are common to parts of the USA and Southern Europe, on the contrary it's usually pis....persistently raining and cool.

 

[scooter01922]

The 427 was a weaker engine and less HP, Head gasket issues, Smoked like a bad dog, Slow, The 465 More HP, less smoke, Parts are easy to find and air shift transfer case is nice.

I beg to differ, all those i have consulted with say its more HP and not slow at all.

 

[Two Dogs]

The 427 was a weaker engine and less HP, Head gasket issues, Smoked like a bad dog, Slow, The 465 More HP, less smoke, Parts are easy to find and air shift transfer case is nice.

Have you had personal experience of the 427 or are you repeating the comments of other sometimes ill informed people? Please don't think that I am in any way criticising you, I am very grateful for all and any info that I receive, it's just that I have been around vehicles for over 60 years and in that time I have seen so many reputations destroyed by stories which have been exaggerated in the telling that I tend to take a lot of comments with a large pinch of salt. As I know little about this family of trucks I don't want to spend my very hard earned money on the wrong model only to find I have 'bought a pup' as we would say over here.

 

[emr]

Thank you for that Randy. Everybody over here seems to want the A2 whistler but I was advised by a friend who has an A2 non whistler to go for the non whistler because of the bigger turbo. unfortunately he could not really advise me on the 427 engine as he has not had experience of it. It surprises me that if the head gasket fault was common that it was not investigated and a mod introduced, that would certainly be the case over here but with the snail like speed of the authorities by the time they have sorted it the vehicles are usually obsolete

There was an upgrade for that very reason it is the 465...It is basically the same motor , just a little more bore and a better head gasket, same block, the only outside difference is the front mounting, the 427 has two tabs that bolt to the old style gasser front cross member, the 465 has the upgraded cross member much heavier and the mounting holes are cast into the block, so the reason for the 465 is actually the upgrade, hope this helps, I think haveing one would be way cool. also, they are very good runners for sure...I have friends with experience with them at the unit level and personal use level, most say they are exellent runners, and none had the problems that led to there demise. although apparently they did in service find alot at least enough head problems to change it, now there was a heavier head gasket offered later and your truck may very well have it, it was not an over heating poblem it was an under duty head gasket...But one can say a truck that did over heat for some reason would obviosly blow a gasket because they were under strenth for strenuous use, so there is a comon note there.but the gasket did not cause some one to over heat the motors..Oh and as for the whistler and other bigger turbo, there may be a difference, but I have had both and a few turns of the screw makes em all equal, ... and a whistler is just way cool, but I also love my growler too that is the 465 s of course......Randy

 

[Two Dogs]

There was an upgrade for that very reason it is the 465...It is basically the same motor , just a little more bore and a better head gasket, same block, the only outside difference is the front mounting, the 427 has two tabs that bolt to the old style gasser front cross member, the 465 has the upgraded cross member much heavier and the mounting holes are cast into the block, so the reason for the 465 is actually the upgrade, hope this helps, I think haveing one would be way cool. also, they are very good runners for sure...I have friends with experience with them at the unit level and personal use level, most say they are exellent runners, and none had the problems that led to there demise. although apparently they did in service find alot at least enough head problems to change it, now there was a heavier head gasket offered later and your truck may very well have it, it was not an over heating poblem it was an under duty head gasket...But one can say a truck that did over heat for some reason would obviosly blow a gasket because they were under strenth for strenuous use, so there is a comon note there.but the gasket did not cause some one to over heat the motors..Oh and as for the whistler and other bigger turbo, there may be a difference, but I have had both and a few turns of the screw makes em all equal, ... and a whistler is just way cool, but I also love my growler too that is the 465 s of course......Randy

Thank you for that info, makes perfect sense. All the advice I have been offered is a great help and the sharing of your knowledge is much appreciated. At the end of the day the decision, of course, must be mine but at least I am now armed with some knowledge pf this model to go with many years experience of truck and plant operation. If the truck checks out OK it will be finding a new home, I like the idea of owning something that's that little bit different.

 

[Two Dogs]

Well I went to see and try the truck yesterday (Tuesday), bought it on the spot and successfully drove it home earlier tonight. On close examination of the engine plate (some of the print is so small as to be almost illegible) it turns out that is a Hercules LD465 Growler. It has been converted sometime before it left the Air Force and though there is evidence of it having originally had the under chassis exhaust it now sports an upright stack, the hole where it comes through the wing (fender)? having been cut quite crudely. There are a few minor faults to rectify vwhich is only to be expected on a truck of this age but the vendor has done a very nice restoraton job which is hardly surprising as he is well known over heRe for his restoration of a very rare FWD.
Sorry there are no pics as yet as my camera is in transit from the manufacturer after an expensive repair after a mate put his foot on it (don't ask) when recently viewing another truck .
Interestingly the front wheel drive engaged on a stretch of steep, wet and slippery road when accessing an American Diner during the return trip. It didn't disengage when manouevering on the car park so I shunted it in reverse and first and hey presto, worked like a dream so that is one more concern out of the way at an early stage,
Thank you all again for your very helpful comments and advice, I will, no doubt, be asking more questions in the future.
As I have now been on the go for 20 hours and keep having to correct stupid mistakes in this post I think it is past time for a litlle 'shut eye'. Good Morning all.....or should that be night.

 

[emr]

WOW!!......All the best !! Sounds like U got a sprag, I had one that ran awesome for 10 years. U did the right thing to disengage them, one must drive drive foward and reverse the same distance or close , once or twice on flat ground straight, when they engage on the run,and it can also happen on dry roads when going up a hill and or turning, The steering wheel will be funny and they will eat the rubber off the outside of the front wheels in about way less than a hundred miles, They will also cause the tranny to be spungy in first and expecially in reverse, it will want to pop out of gear when engaged on dry roads.

 

[Two Dogs]

WOW!!......All the best !! Sounds like U got a sprag, I had one that ran awesome for 10 years. U did the right thing to disengage them, one must drive drive foward and reverse the same distance or close , once or twice on flat ground straight, when they engage on the run,and it can also happen on dry roads when going up a hill and or turning, The steering wheel will be funny and they will eat the rubber off the outside of the front wheels in about way less than a hundred miles, They will also cause the tranny to be spungy in first and expecially in reverse, it will want to pop out of gear when engaged on dry roads.

Thanks Randy , yes I was well aware it was a sprag but after the excellent advice on here my mind was set at rest on any issues with this type.
I knew instantly when the drive engaged , it can be felt quite easily through the steering wheel in exactly the same way as if you manually select 4 wheel drive on an old series Land Rover and all the same rules apply.
The previous owner has just fitted new gaiters on the front hubs but both have come adrift on the jpurney home. As I will have to remove handfuls of grease before I can fix this I assume that this is the cause i.e far too much grease, but I suppose thats better than far too little Other jobs are to replace one broken sheet hook and one broken bonnet(hood) catch and adjust the clutch which are very minor simple jobs and if I have no other issues in the near future I will be more than satisfied with my new old soldier.
Thank you again to all for your help and advice, it is much appreciated and has proved to be invaluable.