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M35a2 block heater

swbradley1

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FYI


Another way........


You do the Math:

To convert Fahrenheit temperatures into Celsius:
  • [FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]Begin by subtracting 32 from the Fahrenheit number.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]Divide the answer by 9.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]Then multiply that answer by 5.[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]Here's an example: Change 95 degrees Fahrenheit to Celsius: 95 minus 32 is 63. Then, 63 divided by 9 is 7. Finally, 7 times 5 is 35 degrees Celsius.[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]To convert Celsius temperatures into Fahrenheit:[/FONT]
  • [FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]Begin by multiplying the Celsius temperature by 9.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]Divide the answer by 5.[/FONT]
  • [FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]Now add 32.[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]Here's an example: Change 20 degrees Celsius to Fahrenheit: 20 times 9 is 180. Then 180 divided by 5 is 36. Finally, 36 plus 32 is 68 degrees Fahrenheit.[/FONT]
 

greenjeepster

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I have seen it done that way too, but I have a hard time remembering something if I don't understand how it works. I understand the adding or subtracting 32 and the multiplying or dividing by 1.8.... I have always been unable to figure out the multiply and divide by 5 and 9?
 

TIGERFANS2

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I posted for the benefit of those who do not know how to do the calculations...like TM:wink:

I'm not sure why you posted the first question "-28 C, that is what, about 18 below zero F. ?" but it was kind of you to show us how to do the calculations (in case we can't type "temperature conversions" in google). :wink:
 

greenjeepster

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I'm not sure why you posted the first question "-28 C, that is what, about 18 below zero F. ?" but it was kind of you to show us how to do the calculations (in case we can't type "temperature conversions" in google). :wink:
Because some will assume that it is about -40 below instead of "googling temperature conversion". It is relevant in a post about start up in cold weather that we are all on the same page rather than some thinking that somebody is starting a truck with a block heater at -40 deg.

I put it in the form of a question to give the poster the opportunity to clarify his post for the majority of us who do not measure temperature in centigrade.
 

Superdave

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Superdave..why did you not use part#3500025? That is what zerostart calls for.
And you do not have to bend it.
Just my thought.

If I remember right I went to the parts guy with a number that some had listed a while back for the motor but he said that there was no such number available. I then asked him what he had in a 2" 1000 watt heater and that is what I picked from the 2 that were available.
 

Divemaster920

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50/50 chance. The only difference is where the element is mounted to the flange. Yours is mounted on the bottom and the other is mounted on top, this is why you had to "tweak"it a little.
You never bend things.
 

tm america

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yes i was incorrect on the temp conversion i just guessed. i can admit when i am wrong but green jeepster you were wrong when you said heat rises. it does not that is incorrect.hot air rises .liquids expand when heated .solids expand when heated .there are several different kind of heat radiant ,convection and dirrect,i would expect a college educated nurse to know the difference.its funny if i type something incorrect everyone jumps on me but when someone else gives bad info they just let it slide .and run with it.water in a sealed invernment will move when heated this is call convection. it is the very reason why water will move in the water pump and block causing it to all get heated .as water expands it moves forcing hot water away from the heating element and moving cold water towards it.untill all the water is the same max temp then the movement will stop.due to uneven insulating factors of the block ,rad, heater hoses and water pump water will almost always be moving in the system with the block heater plugged in
 
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tm america

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i would advise doing a google search on heat and the effects it has on different objects in different invironments. we are not talking about air as the cooling system on the deuce has 32qts of coolant in the system .that is what we are trying to heat with the block heater. knowing the deuce cooling system and the effects of heating coolant are very important to this post someone making coments on how a block heater in a water pump wont heat the coolant in the engine should know that there is a hole in the back of the water pump just inches from where the block heater is being installed .and also they should know by the laws of physics that the water will expand when heated .making it move forcing warm water into the block.
 

greenjeepster

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I am done debating this with you... You may want to take a look at the TM page 6-39 and have a look at the hole in the back of your water pump... it isn't supposed to be there.

For future reference in regards to centigrade temp conversions... It is impossible for Fahrenheit to be lower than a centigrade temp of an equal value.
 
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tsstout

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Sorry for the lack of support TM... You are correct... I figured jeep was gonna test the theory and find the correction... as I'm sure may others were waiting for also.....

Never fear... your science is sound....

Terry
 

tm america

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as i said i guessed at the temp conversion and was incorrect but can you admit when you are incorrect about how heat works .i think this more than shows charracter or lack there of.i do make mistakes and will more then gladly say so when i know i am wrong this whole debate arose from you saying heat rises and when i corrected you alll you did way try to attack everything i said rather than admit you gave miss information.
 

greenjeepster

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I use the term rise loosely in order to make the point. Do you know how thermosiphon works? When water is heated the hot water becomes lighter than the cold water and "rises" to the top..... That is why the collection tank on a thermosiphon hot water system is placed at the top of the system. This is the principle that I am referring to when I say "rise".
 

73X

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Why do we have so many threads about block heaters and how they work? Really now.
Water heats and moves, hot up cool down very simple. And the thermostat is not even relevant in regard to a block heater. The water will heat and warm the steel around it even if a little.
The idea is not to have the thermostat open just keep things warm. The thermostat is only the top of the system there is more to the loop.
As for me the proof is in the fact that my truck starts just as easily on a 10 degree day as it does on a 40 degree day. And all I have is a 3/4 npt 600 watt heater in the upper plug.
I had a 1000 watt heater in the lower connection but after discussions with Westfolk and various other people I pulled it to be safe. It worked when I pulled it I just didn't want to take the chance on something going wrong. And my hot water heater is plumbed in down there.
TM you are very much correct.
 

derby

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The waterpump heater will transmit heat backwards to the radiator and that is where it will diffuse to the air. Then the warm air transmits to the hood through convection which is why the snow melts evenly. It will heat the water, but it has got to be the least efficient way to warm an engine and it is low watt to boot. You want the heat in the block and there are many higher watt heaters that do that more efficiently (jeepster)


You said first,heat rises then you say it will go down to the lower hose to the radiator? Please look closer at the flow of coolant. There might be something you do not know.
 

greenjeepster

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Derby:
The diagram show the circulation of the coolant when the pump is moving the water.

As far as the up then down comment... It will go up until it reaches the thermo. At that point the heater continues to heat water and the heat has to work down backwards because it has nowhere else to go. It is a very simple concept...not sure why so many on here do not understand it.

I have no bone in this argument... I have presented the facts for those who are undecided about a heater....... I understand the defensive stand point if this is how you have yours installed. My posts are to benefit those who have not installed a heater yet... Just trying to save them a few bucks on the heater and electricity.

Good luck
 

RangerDave

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I picked up a 1000 watt heater today and looked at the directions inside. It showed a couple of engines and in both cases it referenced locating the heater in the oil cooler housing (drilling and tapping if necessary). I haven't looked to see if there is a plug large enough there, but has anyone else thought of that?
 

tm america

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m35a2 block heater

If you want a heater I think you are better off with the freeze plug type. The problem with putting it on the water pump is that heat rises. It will rise to the top of the pump and hit the closed thermostat and that is as far as it will travel... Essentially you are warming the waterpump only. The freeze plug type goes into the block warming the water in the block transmitting heat to the pistons which is where you want heat when you are starting in cold weather.
yet again green jeepster you are incorrect and giving bad info. but now you have turned to contradicting yourself .a block heater in the water pump will not just heat the water pump as you said since heat doesnt rise as you said .and there is no thermo sihpioning happening in this situation.
thermo sihpioning is when a fluid in a tank is heated to the point where it expands to the point where it no longer fits in the tank. at this point it looks for the path of least resistance.which is a vent or hole that lets the fluid out. when the fluid comes out the hole or vent under pressure it causes a sihpioning effect thus pulling the fluid out of the hole.this is caused by the fluid expanding not by hot fluid going to the top and cold fluid going to the bottom as the fluid will all be the same temp and expands together as a unit.
the cooling system is a seal unit unless the pressure in the system gets higher then the rad cap is set to. then it can become a vented system.if the coolant has expended to the point where it is above the overflow tube thermo sihpioning can occure. but this is not at all what is happening when the engine is not running and the block heater is providing the heat. any tank with fluid in it can become a thermo sihpioning system for instance rear ends can do it either way if the gear lube gets hot to the point where the fluid level gets above the vent it will force fluid out the vent if it does it with enough pressure it can cause it to sihpion all the fluid out or untill the pressure id gone.also if a rear end is hot when submerged unde water as the diff cools it trys to pull air in as the fluid is shrinking.when it does this it will sihpion water into the diff.
transmissions often do this because of the pump or torque converter going bad making excessive heat in the trans to the point where the fluid expands above the vent or filler tube causing it to burp fluid out if the pressure is great enough it will empty out the trans .
like i said you need to know how the cooling system works. thermo sihpioning is not happening . what is happening is exactly what i said in earlier post the dirrect heat from the block heater causes the coolant to expand thus turning dirrect heat into convection heat forcing the coolant away from the heating element making it move. this forces the cold coolant toward the heating element till all the coolant is heated to the max temp the block heater can achieve..the engine block water pump and rad are one resovior they are all connected unless fluid is being force-sihpioned out of the system via the overflow tube no thermo sihpioning is happening. .
but what is happening is and old theory called if you cant dassle us with brilliance baffle us with bullshi it.only thing is we are grown men not kids and we have intellegents and are not falling for it . so please do some research about how heat works and how the cooling system works before posting to a thread giving misinformation.
 

greenjeepster

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I picked up a 1000 watt heater today and looked at the directions inside. It showed a couple of engines and in both cases it referenced locating the heater in the oil cooler housing (drilling and tapping if necessary). I haven't looked to see if there is a plug large enough there, but has anyone else thought of that?
There is a 3/4 inch drain plug on the oil cooler. I think it is a better location than the water pump.

TM: The movement you describe as convection is thermosiphon. Convection on its own is just the movement of heat.... The cool water being pulled in that you describe is caused by the hot water moving away and that is thermosiphon.
 
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