M35A2 vs. M35A3 In Snow and Ice

[cattlerepairman]

Mine does not know what snow is and I am not going to start explaining it to her! @HDN is right.

 

[glcaines]

I drive my A3 deuce in the snow every winter, but only when they haven't laid salt down on the road. Driving in the snow isn't that bad. What I hate is driving on ice.

 

[rustystud]

I drive my A3 deuce in the snow every winter, but only when they haven't laid salt down on the road. Driving in the snow isn't that bad. What I hate is driving on ice.

Driving in snow with an "automatic" transmission-ed vehicle is always easier. You don't get what I call the "clutch factor" . Thats the extra torque to the rear axle due to reving up the engine to allow the time to shift gears and still keep speed up and the jerking it always causes. I don't care how good you are at shifting gears. There is always an amount of jerking to the drivetrain in shifting. In snow you don't want that . You want steady, smooth transitions of power. Fast change in snow equals loss of control.
Better control of the vehicle, less impact to the drivetrain and easier to operate are all reasons automatics
have taken over the automotive world including trucks and heavy equipment.
I recently received my copy of "Transmission Digest" and the main title was "Those Lingering Manuals" .
In the article it talked about their being a "niche" market for manual transmission repair. Mainly high-performance cars. I told my best friend who also owns his own vehicle repair center about that, and he laughed and said "manuals have been gone for years now. Where have you been ?
Since I have been retired for five years now, and before that worked 20 years in the transit business (bus repair) I haven't kept up on the auto industry as much as he had.

 

[davidb56]

Driving in snow with an "automatic" transmission-ed vehicle is always easier. You don't get what I call the "clutch factor" . Thats the extra torque to the rear axle due to reving up the engine to allow the time to shift gears and still keep speed up and the jerking it always causes. I don't care how good you are at shifting gears. There is always an amount of jerking to the drivetrain in shifting. In snow you don't want that . You want steady, smooth transitions of power. Fast change in snow equals loss of control.
Better control of the vehicle, less impact to the drivetrain and easier to operate are all reasons automatics
have taken over the automotive world including trucks and heavy equipment.
I recently received my copy of "Transmission Digest" and the main title was "Those Lingering Manuals" .
In the article it talked about their being a "niche" market for manual transmission repair. Mainly high-performance cars. I told my best friend who also owns his own vehicle repair center about that, and he laughed and said "manuals have been gone for years now. Where have you been ?
Since I have been retired for five years now, and before that worked 20 years in the transit business (bus repair) I haven't kept up on the auto industry as much as he had.

too bad they can't make a automatic transmission to hold up like a manual. I get 3-400K from my manuals before having to replace them. Ive never got more than 250K from a automatic except in a old 300D.

 

[HDN]

too bad they can't make a automatic transmission to hold up like a manual. I get 3-400K from my manuals before having to replace them. Ive never got more than 250K from a automatic except in a old 300D.

I can't help but think that the problem has to do with half the transmissions guts being made of fibrous clutch bands I think of them like brake shoes.

 

[rustystud]

too bad they can't make a automatic transmission to hold up like a manual. I get 3-400K from my manuals before having to replace them. Ive never got more than 250K from a automatic except in a old 300D.

Actually, the Allison transmission in my new Chevy can handle more power than almost any manual transmission. In actuality all new Allisons can handle more power and last longer than any manual transmission. In one of my last classes from Allison they mentioned this very thing. That is why over 90 percent of all "over the road" trucks today use an automatic transmission. I know someone will mention the "Road Ranger" transmission. Well, they are actually a "semi-automatic" transmission. They also cost a small fortune to buy or rebuild and take a week to rebuild. I know as I have rebuilt them. They also don't last that long either. As far as the clutch material in an automatic transmission go's, they are all made from special synthetic fibers. There are no paper clutches anymore. Having been in the transmission rebuilding business for decades (that was my specialty) I know for a fact that manuals had their faults. The "synchros" are just one wear item that needs replacing on a regular basis. Also, I don't care how good of a driver you are, we all at one time or another "grind gears" . Grinding gears even once causes major wear on a transmission. That metal you just "ground off" is floating around in that transmission and finding it's way into ever bearing in there. Then there is the whole clutch thing. I've never seen a clutch go 400,000 miles. Remember the clutch is a major component of a manual transmission. You cannot have one without the other. That's like an automatic transmission without it's torque convertor.
The last thing I'll mention is the cost of rebuild. It costs twice the amount to rebuild a manual transmission then it costs to rebuild an automatic. That was a given in the industry. Gears and synchros cost more. It is extremely rare to have to replace a "hard part" in an automatic transmission. Unless there was a major failure.

 

[Floridianson]

Having driven both but not in snow or ice my .02. My A3 that had engine oil in the Trans. when slowing down and lower gears kick in you could fell the lunge forward. That might cause the rears to slip on the ice or snow. Now if the rear kicked out just enough to send the truck in a slide slide well bad bad. So I would choose the manual in this case. Now if switching to ATF would cure that problem and not cause another then ok. One thing for sure if you are still running engine oil give the trans. a good warm up. Yes I am from Va. and have driven large trucks in the snow and ice plowing for the state of just delivering product with ice and snow on the roads with a manual truck.

 

[HDN]

Having driven both but not in snow or ice my .02. My A3 that had engine oil in the Trans. when slowing down and lower gears kick in you could fell the lunge forward. That might cause the rears to slip on the ice or snow. Now if the rear kicked out just enough to send the truck in a slide slide well bad bad. So I would choose the manual in this case. Now if switching to ATF would cure that problem and not cause another then ok. One thing for sure if you are still running engine oil give the trans. a good warm up.

I can see that happening. ATF makes a big difference in smoothness of shifting in automatics.

 

[Floridianson]

Post whoring learning to drive in the ice and snow. Having air brakes on my triaxle I would keep the rear brakes in spec but back off the front just a little more than the rear. That way it would help keep the front from locking up and keep you able to steer. Yes some of the older truck had that limiter switch for the front end while driving in ice / snow. Problem with air over Hyd. no way easy of doing that. Yep got to learn when to ease up a bit when driving in snow/ ice and when not to hit the brakes to hard.

 

[ToddJK]

Post whoring learning to drive in the ice and snow. Having air brakes on my triaxle I would keep the rear brakes in spec but back off the front just a little more than the rear. That way it would help keep the front from locking up and keep you able to steer. Yes some of the older truck had that limiter switch for the front end while driving in ice / snow. Problem with air over Hyd. no way easy of doing that. Yep got to learn when to ease up a bit when driving in snow/ ice and when not to hit the brakes to hard.

That's the one thing I appreciate about the manual trans, down shifting and letting the engine and trans slow the truck down instead of using brakes. That even worked on m old deuce with NDT tires, it didn't slip or go into a slide but the second I touched the brakes, I was on ice skates.

 

[HDN]

That's the one thing I appreciate about the manual trans, down shifting and letting the engine and trans slow the truck down instead of using brakes. That even worked on m old deuce with NDT tires, it didn't slip or go into a slide but the second I touched the brakes, I was on ice skates.

You can downshift the AT1545 too. The Allison manual says it's an acceptable way to engine-brake the truck going from Drive to 3rd since 3rd locks up at the torque converter. I downshift at 30 mph when slowing to stop or make a turn at an intersection.

 

[ToddJK]

You can downshift the AT1545 too. The Allison manual says it's an acceptable way to engine-brake the truck going from Drive to 3rd since 3rd locks up at the torque converter. I downshift at 30 mph when slowing to stop or make a turn at an intersection.

That's interesting to know. I have never been in,rode in, or driven an A3. I'd like to own an A3, but I like my multi-fuels so that's why I have yet to purchase one, but I'm hoping some day, I will.

 

[rustystud]

That's interesting to know. I have never been in,rode in, or driven an A3. I'd like to own an A3, but I like my multi-fuels so that's why I have yet to purchase one, but I'm hoping some day, I will.

All the Allison transmissions allow you to select a gear (with lock-up) and stay in it to help with vehicle control and engine braking.

 

[ToddJK]

All the Allison transmissions allow you to select a gear (with lock-up) and stay in it to help with vehicle control and engine braking.

So that more less acts like a manual with a torque converter. Would that be why I've seen some videos where guys stall the A3 out at low speeds or trying to climb a hill? I never realized that tranny would let you lock a gear in like that.

 

[HDN]

So that more less acts like a manual with a torque converter. Would that be why I've seen some videos where guys stall the A3 out at low speeds or trying to climb a hill? I never realized that tranny would let you lock a gear in like that.

The lockup at the torque converter helps with fuel efficiency and eliminates fluid coupling lag. These surplus AT1545s were super-popular with the skoolie crowd because of that, mainly for the fuel efficiency improvement. It was also great that it could almost straight-up replace the common AT545 non-locking automatic - just needed a different mounting plate I think.

That said the AT1545 only locks up in 3rd and 4th gear. The MT654 on the M939 5-tons locks up in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th.

 

[Larry Weibert]

Its a hard call. I really like both. I have a lot of the m35s and 5 tons all manual. I really like them. Always start always run just grunt simple. Ill get you there and ill get you back as long as your sucking air and can play the peddles.
My Tow trucks I run internationals I like the DT 466 with the manual, and I like the one with the alison auto as well. I have a freightliner with a auto I also like. I guess iam torn with loving them the way they are. Iam just the lucky guy that gets to drive them and they all make me smile. I have got them all stuck and got them out there like kids that test the limits. Its all good.

 

[11Echo]

The 1100 Michelin XZL's were the best I ever run on my A2 on icy surfaces.
I like the 395's for mud and snow.

 

[rustystud]

So that more less acts like a manual with a torque converter. Would that be why I've seen some videos where guys stall the A3 out at low speeds or trying to climb a hill? I never realized that tranny would let you lock a gear in like that.

Yes. With the torque converter "lock-up" clutch engaged you're basically acting like a manual clutch. Since all the newer Allisons lock-up the torque converter in third gear (some will lock-up earlier if manual mode is selected) their basically an automatic "manual" transmission for the rest of the gears. This gives you the fuel economy of a manual transmission. Another reason automatics have taken over the motor vehicle industry.

 

[11Echo]

Just to clearify my statement before on my best "ice/icy surfaces" tires the 1100 XZL's are the best in this configuration,
handles like a sports car.

 

[G744]

From personal experience and testing results at the Yuma Proving Grounds, there are few reasons to stick with duals:

1...you carry lots of weight on highway. OK.
2...It's original equipment. Perview of purists.
3...They make you feel good via the looks of them. No comment.

Other than that, big singles do more for any truck off-road or in crappy situations.
And you never have to pull two wheels to change an inside flat...