M35A3ish as expedition vehicle

[darkAR]

Hi All,

Awesome site, I've been here off and on over the years, just now signed up. I'm really wanting to do a decent sized expedition vehicle and the m35a3 is on the list as they're still available via aution. I'm also considering a Unimog 1200/1300/416. I'm not that interested in the m35a2 as I would really like the have the a3's automatic and power steering. I'm an ex Army Reserve guy so I've driven these things before. Here's a couple of questions.

1. The one thing I like about the unimog is the flex of its axles. Has any one tried to do a coil spring conversion on an m35a3? Weight I don't think would be that big of an issue as I plan to strip the truck down to the frame and build up from there.

2. The cat/allison seems like its a great combo. I don't plan on leaving the us, but if I do - what can I expect parts availability wise? Same for the axles?

3. In the Reserves, we just pm'd and drove the things so I was never really on the maintenance side (able very capable to do it though). Does anyone have a basic list of tool's needed (outside of normal tool set)?

4. How reliable would the air brakes be in this situation?

Anything else someone wants to offer up would be helpful too.

Thanks!

 

[R Racing]

Why the double post ? Please delete 1 or the other.

 

[darkAR]

done, thanks!

 

[Danger Ranger]

My suggestion is to read some more on here for the tools and brakes type stuff...

Good luck though!

 

[ApopkaFL]

When you say (expedition) do you plan on making the cab larger? Why would you go to air brakes? That would require anyone that drives it to have a class B license (CDL) here in Florida anyway. Why would you want to use coil springs? The springs on it now are fine, If you really wanted to use something different use air bag and springs off Peter Built semi in the rear, and have air ride. I am build a M35A3 4 door right now. You can search for the thread.

 

[R Racing]

I can't answer for the Unimogs ( never been in 1 ) but I'm very impressed with the capabilitys of my A3 its been a great truck so far. It would seem the unimog would offer more ground clearance than the A3 and probably a tighter turning radius as well.

 

[darkAR]

I thought I remembered them having air brakes - if not, my bad and no big deal . I also remember these things riding really stiff with out much give in the suspension. I've seen lots of people putting the rockwells under trucks/jeeps/broncos/etc. so I was thinking I could get more flex from the suspension by going to a coil spring setup - the air bag suggestion is a great idea too. I will probably integrate the cab into the rest of the rear box - I might only keep the firewall/windshield and floorboard. Just conjecture at this point as I haven't fully decided to use an M35a3 yet

 

[ApopkaFL]

check out the m35a3.net site for more info if you want

 

[R Racing]

on the A3 they have air over hydraulic or air assist braking. its a dual master cylinder set up so if 1 of the systems fail you still have brakes to stop.

 

[rchalmers3]

It would be helpful to define your purpose, how many persons, weight of gear and objectives (remote camping, all road travel, ect.....)

The Unimogs mentioned are at the lower end of the capacity spectrum and are a great platform, especially for consideration as an exploration vehicle because the chassis and suspension is lighter and more flexible. Acquisition, repair and maintenance costs will probably be higher than any alternatives.

The A3 is cheaper to purchase and is a much heavier starting point for your consideration. While it can be converted to coil springs, and may give it desirable characteristics, you may find the expenditure will end up being more costly than starting with a Mog.

You may find it cost effective (and a fun project) to utilize an A3, swap out the tandem rears for a single axle and build in the correct spring rates of the leaf packs, according to your ultimate laden weight. Building a truck to swing taller tires can also impact the highway road speed and fuel mileage..... but no truck 2 tons or over is going to be a miser!

Rick

 

[ApopkaFL]

M35a3

Here is that Peter built semi setup I was talking about. Here is the A3 build I was referring too for the 4 door crew cab.


http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce-modification-hot-rodding/67450-a3-crew-cab-build-starts.html

 

[darkAR]

I had thought about making the rear a single - would you be able to drop say the middle axle and use an extended driveshaft? I would like it to be pretty off-road competent, more than just logging road capable. It will carry a family of 4 with gear for a few weeks at a time (occasionally more) and possibly pull a trailer every once and a while. I don't envision the whole box and gear weight to be more than 4 to 5k.

 

[darkAR]

That's a sweet setup, and looks like it would be easier to put in than a custom coil.

 

[ApopkaFL]

I had thought about making the rear a single - would you be able to drop say the middle axle and use an extended driveshaft? I would like it to be pretty off-road competent, more than just logging road capable. It will carry a family of 4 with gear for a few weeks at a time (occasionally more) and possibly pull a trailer every once and a while. I don't envision the whole box and gear weight to be more than 4 to 5k.

You want to carry a trailer just get a M105A2 1 1/2 ton 2 wheel cargo trailer to pull behind the deuce.

 

[trukhead]

I was not going to post to this thread because of the fact that I can't find pictures of the mog a friend used to own and stored at my farm that I use to play with.

The Mog was the orange one with the exo skeleton, 16k center mounted winch fairheaded off the front and the gray plastic cargo cover with the tattered brigestone tire sticker on each side.

This was the mog in the film that a german guy produced with this mog and other mogs they set up for road rallying in europe. If I recall correctly they won a paris to dakar race with it. It had ricarro racing buckets, 6 point racing belts and a rally computer installed.

With the coil suspension, 8 speed synco tranny with a seperate forward -rwevese direction lever, cheveron michelins, rigid frame, high speed portal axles, a 170 or 250 hp inline 6 sway bars and other unknown mods and factory options, it was a real perfomance machine that would go across moderately bumpy farm feilds 70mph and drift like a tokyo honda on that auto video game. It was a hella fun truck. Find that german movie on cd and you will see what a set up mog will do.

What this mog, with it's dash mounted selector for center diff- axle diff lockup, would conquer as a matter of fact in moments, You would be better off to go around With the A3 or an A2 or set up for the day to equip for and proceed in the extreme terrain with planning and even the assistance of combat engineers for that 20% of the time or use a pack mule. the mog can be set up for extremes.

this mog I was told cost 250 k in '85 from the factory and the asking price when I became acquainted with it was 40k. If didn't have a diagnosis of MS just after I put the deposit down on it I would own it now but the story ended happily and some one else owns it and I suspect his price would be around 100k for it now as he had really spruced it up bodily and cosmetically. and performed a lot of neglected maintenance and rehab. I believe that fasctory installed winch was the only one in the USA. it's original owners was the Swiss or German municipal rescue.

Enough of the mog, I am happy with my A3 for it's ease of operation. I envy the A2 owners, especially the one's with the whistlers as I like listening to the equipment sing. rode around in a RUF turbo and never turned the radio on, just liked listening to the turbo engine sing and the 17 inch tires breaking loose at a 100mph. I got lucky and selected and won an A3 that shifts well, purrs like a big fat kitten on the teat and I could install a $99 (**** corporate whore politicians for selling out the United States of America to the chinese) chinese delco one wire self exciting alternator. I plan on doing the Castrol Syn tech trqanny flush and replenishment cause if Allison recommends transynd and the tranny never goes bad,



The A3 will go where he mog would have gone for me 100% of the time and probably 80% of the time for the Professionals (much respect intended for our Armed Service Personnel ). the A3 is a danm good truck with limitations and in combat I think perhaps a fresh A2 would be better but My A3 is the truck for me!

RIP John

 

[trukhead]

here is that peter built semi setup i was talking about. Here is the a3 build i was referring too for the 4 door crew cab.


http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce-modification-hot-rodding/67450-a3-crew-cab-build-starts.html

nice!!!

 

[m16ty]

You'll want to bob it if you go with air ride. Most tandem air ride setups don't have anywhere near the articulation of the stock setup.

You can get a air ride setup with a lot of articulation but it's complicated and expensive. Hendrickson makes one I think.

 

[spicergear]

Currently owning 2 A2's and a 406 Unimog I can tell you that they are worlds apart. The 416 is a good truck with the 20" longer wheel base and stock 110hp engine and fast axles. Oh, and factory PS, disc brakes, air LOCKERS and suspension articulation right out of the box. They WILL go places an A3 will get hung up on an axle, high center, or side hill where the 'deuce retro' will spin all three tires low on traction on the high side. The 416's can be turned up to around 130hp but you WILL have to install a pyrometer. You can also put a turbo on from a later mog but you generally need to lift the cab to clear it. Then you can boost some more hp out of it. Acquisition cost will be 1-1/2 to twice as much for the Mog. There are a couple larger Mogs on the 'exchange' right now. The earlier mog will be easier to manipulate offroad but it is still a sizeable truck. Unimog® Exchange

The A3 for a more apples to apples comparison would be bobbed with maybe a 3' (one bedside section) bob on the bed. You already have the CAT and Allison so that's nice, and air over brakes (though not disc), and you would want to go with an air locker rear an prolly a Detroit and set of lock outs on the front axle. Now we're close but the retro deuce is still a larger truck. It may be more comfortable with more in-cab room and more bed space...it would also be much friendlier when pulling a trailer than a 416 Mog but would be fairly even with a later model truck.

Both capable but one starts out a little mechanically better for offroad capabilities but the other for less money can end up there and have more room. I would DEFINITELY bob the A3 if you're considering a lot of travel or adventures. Heck just a couple of states being Axxholes about '3 axles and you ARE commercial,' is enough to make me want to drop one.

Overall it's really a preference thing. Mogs are fun, no doubt and I spent 2hrs each way driving this weekend in mine, but you need to sit in one and see how they feel. Personally I like both trucks but prefer the short nose of the Mog now that I've got two years of it. A later model Mog with the Claas overdrive unit would be sweet but the initial price hit is steep. Maybe if the bobbed A3 had 395's on it that would make up for the lack of overdrive in the Allison and help with highway speeds. Suspension articulation would be limited a bit but...

Ha!

 

[spicergear]

Here's a 416 with some mods to it BUT...I know this truck as a friend currently owns it and cut off the jungle gym crap and is restoring it to it's formerly professionally built status. What the jungle gym owner didn't realize is the mogs chassis is part of the suspension and they're designed to flex. Tying all of it together limits the true suspension of the truck. That being said, this has stock size option 405/70 R20 Michelin XM47's (like mine) and you can see how capable these trucks are even being constricted on the suspension side. Oh, that's a 42" tire and a tire height wall. Lemme know when an A3 does that. BUT...it's a question of preference. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLLby5zObYI[/media]

 

[darkAR]

Thanks guys, this is excellent information! Instead of bobing it, can I just lose an axle? I would like to keep the frame the same length for the camper box. Are there any DOT reg's that I'd be crossing? I'm really liking the cat/allison combo - it would make it a lot easier for the better half to help with driving.