M51A2 Broke Could use some info.

[Tototex]

Thanks for the quick answers guys. I will try spinning the drive line between the transfer case and transmission with the transfer case in neutral and transmission in 4 or 5.

I got the IP out and am now taking parts from both my IPs to make one good one. I am trying to take the piece off under the shut off valve but it wont come out. I took out both bolts and it will wiggle. I then took out the 4 flat headed screws to expose two gears. This thing doesn't seem to want to come out. Am I missing something here?

I have a picture of the IP where its missing. I can take a picture of the IP where it is still attached tomorrow if needed.



How does this thing come off?

 

[gimpyrobb]

If memory serves, its a layered thing. 4 screws comes out and part comes off to expose more screws. Ill let you know after noon tomorrow

 

[Tototex]

I got that piece figured out. The gears inside the IP were grabbing onto it. I just had to pry from both sides and wiggle it.

Quick question about timing. If the engine is an LD465-1 (use 2nd mark) and the IP is from an LDS465-1A (Use 1st mark). I would use the 2nd mark on the crank shaft, correct? I imagine changing the IP would have no affect on the timing.

Its all ready to go back together, I just need to wait on the gaskets to ship out.

 

[gimpyrobb]

The marks on the crank are for timing non-turbo(LD465) and turbo(LDT and LDS). Use the mark for the turbo if you have one.

 

[Tototex]

So even though my motor is an LD465-1 which calls for the second mark, I should use the 1st mark because a turbo has been added to this engine?

Is there any documentation to back this up? I just want to be sure as I really dont want to have to time it twice.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Yes if you have a turbo run the ldt/lds setting. Or, if it ran fine before, use the ld setting. It doesn't make much difference honestly.

 

[Tototex]

LD465-1 Timing

My timing assembly on my injection pump blew up which led to me replacing it. I just did the timing and am nervous about a few things. Figured I better ask so that I don't have to take it apart again. I have a few questions so I numbered them.

1.) The current engine is an LD465-1 (Use 2nd mark on crankshaft) and the IP is from an LDS465-1A (Use first mark). I would use the 2nd mark as designated by the engine, correct?

2.) I have a turbo on this engine. I was told that if a turbo is installed, to use the 1st mark which is for LDS and LDT engines. Is this right?

For now I have lined the crank up with the first mark.

3.) I have just reinstalled the IP. The mark in the inspection place was spot on. I tightened half the bolts and looked back to find it was off by less than 1/8 of an inch. Is this a big problem? Do I need to pull it back apart and try again? I was hoping it wouldn't matter much since the some people say they have used the 1st or second mark on the crank shaft without noticing much difference.

4.) The TM says there should be space between the #1 and #2 pistons and rocker arms if the crank is lined up to the right mark. I do have space on #2 but #1 still has contact. It appears to be all the way up but does not have space. I would guess that if I was a rotation off they would be in completely different positions. I just wanted to check with you guys to make sure.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Floridianson]

That would be the advance unit that is FUBAR. Also there is an easer way to remove the IP with gear installed. There are three studs that go through from the front cover to the IP. If you look you can see which ones they are as I forget. Think it is the one at eleven o"clock. The one at four o"clock and the one at seven o"clock. What you do is put another nut on that correct studs and jam it up tight to the nut that is there. Then you just back out the three long studs and the IP is free other that the rear support. Here you will be removing the front cover to assemble so take off the outer nuts that hold on the front IP gear cover.
When installing the IP drive gear try and keep it looking like the pic for install and the space is to the right on the gear.

 

[Floridianson]

If all else fails just read the directions. The best way to find TDC is remove the front valve cover and watch the number one intake open and close. This is where so many get messed up by doing what is incorrect. That would be Guessing and not knowing.

 

[gimpyrobb]

If all else fails just read the directions.

Dam old guys and their logic...

 

[Tototex]

I have read the directions for this whole process a few times over. I am just looking for experienced affirmation at this point. I am attempting to do this project without removing the radiator or side fender. Because of this, I can not remove the power steering pump. It runs into the radiator. I have no access to the front of the timing gear. I took off the IP with the gear as you described, replaced the timing/advance assembly and am now putting it back together. I rotated the IP toward the fender, made contact with the crankcase gear, and then rotated it and slid it in. I tried this about 10 times before the IP timing mark actually lined up.

As I have no access to the front gear of the timing device to make small adjustments, my questions is that in your experience, will the IP timing mark being off by about 1/8th of an inch make a large difference in how the engine runs? Or do I need to bite the bullet and work and removing the power steering pump?

With the other question, the TMs do not cover it at all. gimpyrobb says that if your using an LD engine with a turbo, to use the LDT or LDS mark. I trust gimpyrobb and he has been very helpful. I did want to double check though as I dont want to do this again. This information does not appear to be in the TMs I have checked. He also mentioned that there wouldn't be much difference whether I used the first mark or second mark on the crankshaft. I was hoping that this meant the 1/8inch off on the IP wouldn't be that critical.

 

[doghead]

LD= Liquid cooled diesel

LDT= Liquid cooled diesel with turbo

LDS=Liquid cooled diesel with supercharger( Actually a turbo charger), higher output motor than the LDT.


When you add a turbo(like the MWO for to assist with emissions, aka clean air kit), you are instructed to change the timing from LD to the LDT mark. Many times this step is not done and I think most would say it does not make any noticeable difference.

 

[Floridianson]

Thought there was a OP asking about a LDS pump on a LDT and was asking what mark to use. So in the Gas world to much advance is bad but not enough only hurts performance. So Pittsburg had us retard injection but that was lowering the compression from stock bigger turbo and stuff. Now Ray aka Razer put a LDS pump on his LDT and may be he will chime in and tell us what mark he used. He says the truck runs great. So if we bring the gas world to the diesel world then would it not be better to retard or use the LDS mark with the LDT motor or run the LDT mark with the LDS pump on a LDT motor?

 

[gimpyrobb]

I thought Ray put my LDS advance unit on his LDT IP. Would it therefor be a hybrid pump? Could he use hybrid parking spots?

 

[doghead]

Is there such thing as lowbrid?

Never mind, just answered my own question with a google search.

 

[Tototex]

Lowbrid... lol. That brought up quite the search results.

Well, after watching a handful of youtube videos on 4 strokes and finding TDC, I am pretty sure I am 180 off. I need to get someone to watch the rocker arms why I rotate the drive line. Seems like I will be taking it apart to fixing the timing anyway.

Both LDS and LDT use the 1st mark, so no argument there. The LD uses the second mark. But since I added the LDS turbo to it, I will use the first mark. I'll be sure to let you know how it runs once I'm finished.

 

[gimpyrobb]

A quick way to check if your our of time is to set the harmonic balancer to TDC then pull the fuel shut off cover. The hyd head's red/scored tooth should be VISIBLE.

Visible, not lined up! Just visible.


If not, your 180 out.

 

[Tototex]

Well, I got it all back together and it wont start. She turns over but does not make a sound like anything it firing. No backfiring either.

It was on TDC after the intake valve closed. I had the crank shaft lined up on the first mark. Injection pump line was dead center on the needle, and the red tooth was visible in the hydraulic head. It was 1 tooth to the right of the marker just as the TM stated.

I am pretty sure you don't need to bleed the injection lines on this beast but I did that as well after it wouldn't start. Diesel came out each of the injector lines.

Any ideas what I might have missed?

 

[gimpyrobb]

Very often when I've had the fuel system apart, it requires a quick whiff of ether to get the system to purge, then it starts correctly after that.

You've bled the air from the filters?

 

[Tototex]

I have not bled the air from the fuel filters. I didn't know that was a thing. I am guessing cracking the valve at the bottom isn't going to let any air out. How do I go about that?

I use ether to start the back hoe so I have some laying around. Where should I spray it on the truck? Just inside the air filter?

If I was 180 off, the engine would still fire, or back fire wouldn't it? My wife lined up the timing while I rotated the drive line, so now I'm getting nervous...