M813 leaking front axle

[timgc78]

Guys my 813 leaks gear oil at the right front steering joint. Is it time for a boot or am I replacing an inner axle seal?

 

[simp5782]

Guys my 813 leaks gear oil at the right front steering joint. Is it time for a boot or am I replacing an inner axle seal?

Inner seal

 

[Ajax MD]

Well, is it thin, tired grease or is it really gear oil? Grease is a boot, oil is an axle seal. Is the boot torn?
I had a torn boot and the grease was thin, ran out under heat and left a "sling" pattern on the inside of the tire.

Something you can try- Wiggle the axle vent and see if it vents off. If it does, you *might* avoid replacing the seal if you can relieve the pressure.

I certainly hope it isn't brake fluid. Check your reservoir.

 

[timgc78]

Well, is it thin, tired grease or is it really gear oil? Grease is a boot, oil is an axle seal. Is the boot torn?
I had a torn boot and the grease was thin, ran out under heat and left a "sling" pattern on the inside of the tire.

Something you can try- Wiggle the axle vent and see if it vents off. If it does, you *might* avoid replacing the seal if you can relieve the pressure.

I certainly hope it isn't brake fluid. Check your reservoir.

It leaks while sitting. Not brake fluid. I'm fairly certain it's the new 80w90 I put in the differential. The rubber boot is shot. That is where it leaks.
I had the hub and brake drum off to do the wheel cylinders and pack the bearings last year.
How hard is it to get the inner axle seal holder out? I imagine it takes a slide hammer to get it out? I can make a driver to reinstall it.
What's the deal with the grease on the axle joint?

 

[Mullaney]

It leaks while sitting. Not brake fluid. I'm fairly certain it's the new 80w90 I put in the differential. The rubber boot is shot. That is where it leaks.
I had the hub and brake drum off to do the wheel cylinders and pack the bearings last year.
How hard is it to get the inner axle seal holder out? I imagine it takes a slide hammer to get it out? I can make a driver to reinstall it.
What's the deal with the grease on the axle joint?

.
Suggest you do both. Torn boot will only get worse with time and if you have a "sulfur smell" then you can be pretty certain that the seals are leaking too. Fix the one with the problem, then while you are still good at it - fix the other one too.

Bummer.
Been there and done that.

There are step by step instructions with pictures on the site.

 

[US6x4]

Sounds exactly like my M813 before I replaced the inner shaft seal. If you can make a contraption similar to what I did it's a little easier work than a slide hammer. There are a few really good writeups on the process and most of them are in the 2.5 ton section.

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threa...r-5-ton-this-week.83549/page-465#post-2366650

I replaced the boot a while later by myself and it didn't stay in place. I'll have to get my brother to help lend a few extra fingers to get it tightened down propper.

 

[Ajax MD]

@timgc78 Here's a video that shows how things come apart and go together:
Changing 5 ton ROCKWELL axle boots and seals on my AM General! Resealing steer axle on M813a1! - YouTube

@simp5782 actually has a better video showing a slide hammer setup that he used to remove the seal but I can't find it.
As far as your question about "grease on the axle joint" there is a lot of discussion about this. If your axles use the newer, closed style U-joint, many people say that you don't really need to pump the entire steering knuckle full of 5 lbs of grease. If you have the older Bendix(?) style with exposed ball bearings, many people feel it's proper to really fill up the knuckle.

Here's what the "open" style looks like:
Bendix/Open axle joint

Then, there are folks who believe that the knuckle should always be packed full of grease regardless, because it'll help keep water out of the knuckle if you end up in deep water.

I am very literal. I do things "The Army Way" (even though I'm a Navy guy) and I follow the manual unless someone can give me a damn good reason why I shouldn't.

 

[TheQuaker]

@timgc78 when I changed out inner seals on my 923 I used a slide hammer and a similar piece from the kit like below:



It was the perfect size to pull the seals, but was too wide to insert it flat through the outer face of the seal. I held it with a pair of long nose pliers at an angle and inserted it then held on to it long enough to thread on my slide hammer.

A couple of hits with the slide hammer and they pop right out. Really simple and fast, actually.

 

[HDN]

It sounds like you need a new axle seal and a boot.

I consider boots consumable. They aren't really meant to keep the grease in and the water out - they're more like dust covers than anything, but they do help with keeping greasy mess off the insides of your wheels

Both of the boots on my deuce are torn and I plan on replacing them with zipper boots since I won't feel like pulling the front end apart every time I want to replace them. Per the TM I make sure the knuckles are well-lubricated (which is easy to tell with my torn boots!) until I do the replacement project.

 

[timgc78]

That's great info, pic and videos!!
I have zippered boots. Do I seal the zipper?
I'm just gonna tear it all down, replace the axle seal and pack the steering joint with new grease. I'm tired of it leaking down the tire onto the ground.

 

[Mullaney]

That's great info, pic and videos!!
I have zippered boots. Do I seal the zipper?
I'm just gonna tear it all down, replace the axle seal and pack the steering joint with new grease. I'm tired of it leaking down the tire onto the ground.

.
Zipper at the top and I wouldn't seal it.
If you have a burning desire you could seal with some RTV, but generally the rubber will have degraded before there is a leak at the boot zipper.

 

[timgc78]

.
Zipper at the top and I wouldn't seal it.
If you have a burning desire you could seal with some RTV, but generally the rubber will have degraded before there is a leak at the boot zipper.

One more thing. Is the long portion of the axle easy to guide back into the differential?
It looks like you could beat up your new axle seal....especially if the spline is stubborn to get back in place.

 

[INFChief]

Check to make sure the boot simply did not come off the axle where the big ring clamp holds it fast. Also verify what sort of grease was put in there.

 

[Mullaney]

One more thing. Is the long portion of the axle easy to guide back into the differential?
It looks like you could beat up your new axle seal....especially if the spline is stubborn to get back in place.

.
timgc78 , the rear axle can sometimes a bit of a pain to put back into the splines - but I don't remember ever damaging a seal. That seal doesn't ride on the axle so it should be safe to wiggle it in place.

 

[timgc78]

Guys I dug into the leaky side and found a mess. Gear oil had mixed with the grease and made a nasty slurry, the boot was toast also....I noticed the cv joint has ran a bit low in the axle housing and rubbed the housing. I plan to do new spindle bushings. Anyone know which TM has this job in it?

 

[US6x4]

This job is covered in TM 9-2320-260-34-1 section 10. They list a special remover tool 5120-378-4301 but they don't show what that tool looks like.

 

[timgc78]

This job is covered in TM 9-2320-260-34-1 section 10. They list a special remover tool 5120-378-4301 but they don't show what that tool looks like.

View attachment 859614

View attachment 859615

View attachment 859616

Yessir that is it exactly!!

 

[Micmada]

I used a large pick up truck scissor jack pulling through a chain loop a chain ball with bolts inside the hub. It was a bit tricky but it worked.