M816 multifuel and 53" tires

[metalman99]

Hello all, I just lost about 15 minutes worth of typing on accident, so if this is a little cobby, sorry, i'm in a hurry to re-type everything and hit the sack.

I've been looking for a MV for my 13 year old and I to build into a Bug out vehicle, (although we have nowhere to bug out to). I've been deciding between a HMMWV and 5 ton or duece. After seening the vids on Youtube of the big 6x6 trucks going thru 6' of water and 4' of mud, we decided against the HMMWV, it won't carry enough cargo also.

So we decided on a 5 ton M816 with 53's and have spent alot of time searching the forum for information and reading peoples opinion of this truck, it seems pretty well respected for what it can do.

Our plan is to radically modify the truck, build an armore crew cab and do alot to it. I'll post alot of pics of the project here, it will be pretty cool. I own a metal fab business and machine shop, so we have access to lots of equipment to do this.

I'm likely going to close on the purchase of our truck tomorrow and would greatly appreciate any help or suggestions that anyone can offer before we buy. I'll explain how we decided on the 5 ton M816 over the deuce and why the wrecker.

Because of the weight we're adding with the armor and with the 53's, the 5 ton will carry more weight and I don't think the M35's like running the 53's.

I choose the M816 because first and formost I will need this vehicle to get us where we need to go, and with the front and rear winches, this truck can get itself out of trouble should it get stuck. We might remove the crane.

Lastly, it is stick with power steering and that suits my needs, but the main reason for the M816 is payload capacity and front and back winches.

The only thing it does not have that I really want is multifuel, so here are my questions.

1. It seems that a multifuel conversion is possible, what multifuel engine is will fit / bolt to the stock 5 speed with minimal mods and which multifuel is the most powerfuel?

2. Has anyone on here done an 800 5 ton multifuel?

3. Will a multifuel be powerful enough to move the truck with 53's? First and foremost i want to be able to drain motor oil of out all the stranded cars that have no gas, power is second so long and I can go in low and get through mud, ravines, etc. should the need arise.

4. I understand the brakes are air over hyd. or the other way around, is this a good system or are there upgrades that 5 ton owners do to better this?

5. The big 53's on this are huge targets, are there run flat inserts for these tires?

6. I would consider a duece if it had front and rear winches, I would fabricate my own bed for it. Are there rear winches (high capacity) for the M35?

7. What is the largest tire the M35 can power, can it handle 53"?

The reason for asking the M35 winch and tire questions is that if there is no way to convert the 816 to multifuel, I would look at the deuce, but prefer the payload capacity of the 5 ton.

Thanks again, I know nothing about MV's but this is something we're going to do, so i'm looking forward to being a part of this community. I'll post pics as soon as the sale is complete and will post pics as the project progresses.

Tony

 

[metalman99]

I just got done making a donation on PayPal...thanks for the great forum!

 

[Josh]

If you want a multifuel wrecker, look for a M543A2. And a stock duece, 53s wont fit , but 46s will.

 

[wreckerman893]

I've been looking for a MV for my 13 year old and I to build into a Bug out vehicle, (although we have nowhere to bug out to). I've been deciding between a HMMWV and 5 ton or duece. After seening the vids on Youtube of the big 6x6 trucks going thru 6' of water and 4' of mud, we decided against the HMMWV, it won't carry enough cargo also.

So we decided on a 5 ton M816 with 53's and have spent alot of time searching the forum for information and reading peoples opinion of this truck, it seems pretty well respected for what it can do.

An M816 weighs 36,000 pounds and putting 53's on it will make the underpowered 250 Cummins even more anemic. The gearing on these trucks suck....they have a big gap between 3rd and 4th that causes the engine to fall flat on it's face when you upshift.

Our plan is to radically modify the truck, build an armore crew cab and do alot to it. I'll post alot of pics of the project here, it will be pretty cool. I own a metal fab business and machine shop, so we have access to lots of equipment to do this.

This truck was built for a specific purpose...to pull vehicles out of the mud or recover them if disabled or battle damaged...they were marginally good at that task. Most units used them for the boom rather than their towing ablilty. Up armoring the vehicle will make it heavier and more underpowered. You also need to do some research as to how armored vehicles are used in battle...they usually have infantry or other armored vehicles providing overwatch for them. A single armored vehicle is a challenge...not a deterrant. You might force your way through the untrained masses but if you run up against someone that knows what they're doing they are going to own you.

I'm likely going to close on the purchase of our truck tomorrow and would greatly appreciate any help or suggestions that anyone can offer before we buy. I'll explain how we decided on the 5 ton M816 over the deuce and why the wrecker.

Because of the weight we're adding with the armor and with the 53's, the 5 ton will carry more weight and I don't think the M35's like running the 53's.

I choose the M816 because first and formost I will need this vehicle to get us where we need to go, and with the front and rear winches, this truck can get itself out of trouble should it get stuck. We might remove the crane.

If you want winches front and back get a M814 (long bed five ton) and modify it...it has the reinforced frame and is longer than the M816. You will have a flat bed to work with rather than a butchered wrecker body. Removeing the crane renders the vehicle incapable of performing a lot of its intended purpose.


Lastly, it is stick with power steering and that suits my needs, but the main reason for the M816 is payload capacity and front and back winches.

The M816 has no payload......it was not designed to haul anything...it was designed to recover vehicles.

The only thing it does not have that I really want is multifuel, so here are my questions.

1. It seems that a multifuel conversion is possible, what multifuel engine is will fit / bolt to the stock 5 speed with minimal mods and which multifuel is the most powerfuel?

There were multi-fuel 5 tons before the 800 series (I owned a M54 tractor). The 200 horse power multi-fuel will not pull a greasy string out of a fat cat's azz. That's why they put the 250 Cummins in the 800 series. Even if you had multi-fuel capablity 3 miles to the gallon would be a wet dream in the vehicle you describe. Any older diesel engine can run on some alternative fuel mixtures....not just to the extent the multi can.

2. Has anyone on here done an 800 5 ton multifuel?

Nobody in their right mind.

3. Will a multifuel be powerful enough to move the truck with 53's? No. First and foremost i want to be able to drain motor oil of out all the stranded cars that have no gas, power is second so long and I can go in low and get through mud, ravines, etc. should the need arise. The Cummins would burn a mixture of motor oil and diesel.

4. I understand the brakes are air over hyd. or the other way around, is this a good system or are there upgrades that 5 ton owners do to better this? The newer 900 series 5 tons have straight air brakes....you may need a Commercial Drivers License to drive it in your state.

5. The big 53's on this are huge targets, are there run flat inserts for these tires? Yes...but changing/repairing them is a giant PITA.

6. I would consider a duece if it had front and rear winches, I would fabricate my own bed for it. Are there rear winches (high capacity) for the M35? Consider a 5 ton....a deuce is not an ideal vehicle to up-armor....that's why most of the Gun Trucks in Viet Nam were 5 tons.

7. What is the largest tire the M35 can power, can it handle 53"?

395's or 1100x20 is the highest I would go....anything bigger and you lose a lot of pulling power.

The reason for asking the M35 winch and tire questions is that if there is no way to convert the 816 to multifuel, I would look at the deuce, but prefer the payload capacity of the 5 ton.

Thanks again, I know nothing about MV's but this is something we're going to do, so i'm looking forward to being a part of this community. I'll post pics as soon as the sale is complete and will post pics as the project progresses.

I have owned an M816 (the money pit) and an M54 multi-fuel 5 ton (the slow dog) I now own an M927 extended bed 5 ton. I perfer it hands down to the others.

You stated that you know nothing about MV's.....you are at the right place to learn.....I would put my purchase plans on hold and do a lot of reading on this site before I commited to a project like you describe.

Once you have the knowlege to make a better informed decsion buy something more suitable for what you want to do.

Just my 2 cents for what the're worth.

By the way.....my M927 is posted in the classifieds.

 

[navyninja]

Consider finding the somewhat armored versions of the MTVR that the Navy uses. Theyre automatic but just as big and bad as what you want. Those trucks are made by Oshkosh.

 

[bearboley]

I think anything that uses fossil fuel is not a good choice for a bugout. No matter how big it is it won't haul enough to sustain you more than a week of 2. Who would want to bugout anyhow? I would stay where my stuffs at. If you want to be a preeper then spend your money on mre's and buy a horse or mule or 2 it can pack you stuff across rougher terrain than a truck could ever do and if you run out of food you can eat em. if you have your heart set on a bugout truck buy a duece. It will run on most anything if you keep the stock tires any old tire 9.00x20 tire will mount up and they are everywhere in farmers barns off of old grain trucks they are light enough to get un stuck with minimal tools. Forget the armour it will just make you a target and add weight. Keep it light keep it simple.

 

[islandguydon]

I agree with bearboley, With the Deuce in a bug out scenario every burned out car/truck has a few gallons of UMO/ATF to procure. I designed a collector with a 12v pump. You slide the collector under the vehicle punch 2 holes, 1 for oil, 1 for the atf then pump it into a tank to be filtered and used for fuel and away you go.....!

IMHO, I am sold on the multi fuel...!

 

[Atomic]

I would just buy a tank.

 

[Danger Ranger]

This is gonna sound harsh:

It looks to me like you have not put any thought into this at all. You need to take a few steps back and re-think your plan. You are building a truck for bug out. Hint: most people who build a truck for bugout can at least use the truck for other more practical purposes until the need arises.

You also need to spend several months on this forum reading everything you can handle, and look especially at what you may use the truck for until such time as a possible bug out. An M35 deuce is 6x6, has a multifuel, and weighs 13,000lbs. Thats heavy. These are old, slow trucks. Not modern agile armored cars.

Looks for camper builds, or M109s, or long wheelbase trucks. Read about the builds and the men and women who did them.

Then come back and post a build thread of your own. We will be watching for it.

 

[metalman99]

Tank won't work, we want it to be road legal. I've attached a sketch to show what i'm trying to do. I'm actually more capable than the sketch shows, it's just to show quickly what i want to do.

Big tires and lots of power to keep it from getting stuck or to drive over stranded cars.

Winches to get unstuck.

Armored cab for added safety.

Payload capacity to carry:

fuel
knuckleboom winch (to load / unload tires, etc.)
genset
compressor
water
food
weapons
welder
spare tires
wmo filtration (for multifuel)
plus lots of other items, medical, ammo, etc.

It's intended to be a fun project for my two sons and I and will likely take a year or more to complete. They'll learn how to handle the tools and fabricate.

 

[metalman99]

This is gonna sound harsh:

Not harsh at all, i'm looking for honest feedback. It's just an idea right now and I thought the 816 might be the right platform to use. I konw it's not designed to carry a payload, but the boom is rated for 20k# and if i remove it, that's another 3k#?, so there is my payload.

Sounds like i'll be very disapointed with the power and this truck when done might not be unstoppable as i'm expecting.

But the 6 x 6 factor for me was the deciding factor after seeing them in the mud and driving over cars online. I felt that was better than a 4 x 4.

 

[bearboley]

Here is a fact about a 816's offroad ability. Rained a inch and a half one night next morning I pulled in my front yard and was stuck. Nothing to hook either winch too 180hp tractor would not shake it, long story short took a 450 horse 4 wheel drive tractor to pull it out and it spun. 5ton=heavy. You want all the service stuff get a contact service truck throw a turbo on the 6.2 6 inch lift and some 35 inch tires.

 

[11Echo]

A short while back this truck sold on GL. It would have been a good start for your project.

Multifuel powered M55A2.

 

[doghead]

The smart people are going under ground or under water when "IT" happens.

I can see you now, driving in circles, looking for everyone left...opcorn:

When you learn to walk through a nuclear generator core with no ill effects, then you should think about what you'll drive, after TSHTF.


Thanks a lot Hollywood...


Lastly, this is NOT a prepper site, so if that's your deal, take it somewhere else.

 

[metalman99]

Lastly, this is NOT a prepper site, so if that's your deal, take it somewhere else.

I'm just looking for some advice on a military truck that i'm considering buying today. Hoping to get some feedback on what it is really capable of and how it might work for my intended use...since I have no experience with these.

I don't think the world is going to end and am not a prepper. I am a businessman with 2 young boys and some time and money on my hands looking for a fun project. I've been a metal fabricator my whole career and through lots of hard work, now employ just over 100 great people.

I'm just trying to put a face to the name, I'm not an internet clown wasting everyone's time here.

If I proceed with this project and am successful, it would be pretty darn cool as i've not seen anything like this anywhere. I am not looking to build a camper and don't need it to be practical for anything other than, "wow, is that thing cool. and it works too!"

I also made a $100 (which was the highest dollar amount to select) contribution on Paypay last night immediately after posting my questions as a sign of respect and appreciation for the help and don't appreciate the suggestion that I "take it somewhere else". I didn't ask about what kind of beans grow best during an apocolypse, how to make drinking water or anthing else prepper related. Only what to expect from an M816.

Thanks alot,
Please don't ban me, I was hoping to make some friends on here as we get into MV's.

 

[markmontana]

Hang in there my friend! There are also a lot of us here that are of a more tolerant mindset and would find your progress interesting- even if not our own idea of a project.

I just picked up an 817 and find it very capable for the task it was designed for.

And welcome to the site.

 

[islandguydon]

Boy, Richard had some time on his hands today, I have never seen him go off like that before

 

[hndrsonj]

Get into the TM's under the resources section. Almost every series of truck has front and rear winches (in at least one variant). Several have reinforced frames. I would not be in a rush to buy until you know exactly what you want the end product to be.

 

[doghead]

It takes more than just one day to decide what vehicle may fit your build.

The membership here does know MVs.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Thes trucks and water do pretty well. Mud is another story. Sticking 36,000# requires some effort to free. Hang out for a month, look at some of the super cool stuff going on then decide. If you need a utilitarian truck to do much, consider a cargo truck, add knuckle boom behind cab and add a rear winch. If you want pure off road capabilities, consider a Mog.

Oh, forgot! If you need armor, you will likely need A/C too.