M816 multifuel and 53" tires

[Danger Ranger]

Looks like you bit off a little more than you can chew. That's ok. We're here to help,.....but, you should listen to what some more experienced members have to say. Just do some more research and take your time. I suggest making your "plan" and finding a better route than "I'm gonna build the biggest more ginormous truck I can imagine and conquer the world with it."

I think you should buy a deuce like everyone else and be happy. Customize it as you will. That'll getcha started.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

Wreckers are rarer than normal trucks, so cutting one up and taking it apart makes less for the future.

They are double framed and very heavy- you would still have to keep the rear part of the bed if you want to keep the rear winch.

The multi will not have the power to move your rig very well, even if you built it on a deuce. I would go with a 800 series truck, and find a 400 big cam engine to put in it. Then you would have the power to move the weight you want. Ask anyone here, I burn **** near anything liquid and flammable in my trucks, and have had no problems. The 400 would take it but you would have to blend it with thinner oils or say kero, diesel, etc.

So what I see is, you want to build a cool project to help you teach your boys and it will be a father/son's thing. You also want it to be functional if the SHTF as well. There are many who will say no to the idea of using it the way you are hoping. I say, if you want to build it, build it. Just plan plan plan and plan. The issue with getting stuck- yes, it would be great to have winches. but if you're stuck, you won't be out there to hook up said winches if you're being shot at. The thing you want to focus on, is not getting stuck in the first place. Huge tires do not equal not getting stuck- good driving and a capable rig do.

I would look for a 813 or a modern 925, and put a hydro winch on the rear, and drop in the 400 big cam. That would make a pretty capable rig to start with. You could double the frame up if your really going to add that much stuff and armor.

I would avoid the wrecker as a starting point.

 

[123mack]

From your drawing, it looks like you're building a replica of a MRAP. What ferro says is good advice. Find a 813 or 900 series cargo with rusted or beat up sheet metal, strip it to the chassis and start your project from there.

 

[123mack]

An article with some photos and references
MRAP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[EMD567]

Before you build this monster, go out and find a couple of MV's to drive. You will find that as built, they are capable trucks. They are not designed to "drive over" any vehicle, including a smart car. They will push it however, and to push, you need to be closer to the ground. All the 53's will do is get you hung up on said car, and kill your performance over the road. My M814(5 ton, XLWB) does well, even loaded to 36k. But I am running stock tires, not torque robbing 53".
And if you really want challege- get one stuck....

 

[metalman99]

Great advice and thanks for the welcome to the site. I've put the purchase on hold and will spend more time researching. Clearly, there is a lot to learn here.

I'll post a few vids that caught my eye and leaned me toward the 800 with 53's. All things being equal (driver, etc.), I would think the 53's would provide some advantage for the floatation, ground clearance and deep lugs. These vids are the basis for my choice over an HMMWV, plus the extra room and cargo capacity.

I'm also going to have one of our designers here start a CAD drawing for me today and i'll post PDF's of his progress. Any comments or suggestions would be welcomed.

And, yes it is a kind of MRAP with alot of utility features, kind of a self sufficient vehicle. Crane to lift tire during tire change, water filtration, WMO filter, welder, etc. The cab on the new AM General BRV-O is modular and that was my intent. Fabricate an armored modular cab that drops onto the chassis and build around that.

When is the next rally?

Here are a couple of the vids, maybe someone from here?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tackmgZpkAI[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QbS056KSDI&feature=related[/media]

 

[Danger Ranger]

I think you should look at van body trucks like the m109 or m820.

As for 53s, duals can do just about anything they can. They carry spares, they have floatation, they have traction if you get the right tires, and they don't suck off all your torque. What else do you need? Top speed? Find another hobby then, there are no fast military trucks.

I'm playing devil's advocate here, prove me wrong and have at it.

 

[wanderingwillys]

I have a M543 (1967 multifuel wrecker) with 1600's (53's) mounted on it - as mentioned it's heavy - about 31,000lbs and you would need to retain most of the bed if you were to want the rear winch...

As a side note the 45,000lb rear winch is a serious tool; if you are looking to un-stick the truck you would be better served with a second 25,000lb unit like the one on the front (pulled mine out of clay muck with the differentials pushing groves in the ground - after breaking the 5/8" pear link on the leader chain; these winches will PULL if you set them up in low gear)

Other than that I say do what you want - building it from a 5 ton cargo truck would be easier - and from a duece chassis would be even easier...

But who I am I to say... I have a M35a2 on 1400's (48's) as well and it is a much more nimble offroad vehicle even with manual steering...

Matt

 

[metalman99]

First of all, thanks alot to everyone that replied to my post on this. I slowed down and spent the last couple of weeks researching here, online in general and actually going out and seeing different trucks at different dealers.

I'm no longer looking at the M816, and am looking at two possible directions to go with this.

1. Stay with my orignal 6 x 6 plan. I found an M52A2. It seems much better for my project than the M816 all around and...it's a multifuel, which I really want.

a. It is around a 1970, LDS-465-1A, spicer 5 spd. I found it at Oshkosh Equipment in Oshkosh, WI. They were nice and let me drive whatever I wanted. It's a little pricey in my opinion, but i haven't negaotiated yet. $20k asking price.

b. I would really like to fit the MRAP 395 Michelins that have been available lately, has anyone fit these on a 5 ton? I can fabricate / machine adapter plates if that is an option?

c. It has a spicer 5 spd., is that a good trans? It also has a sprag (?) to engage the front axle. Is that a good way to get the front engaged? Is this system tough and respected or is it a weak link that I should avoid.

d. I'll need front and rear winches, can they be fit on the M52A2? Any info on someone that can help with that would be greatly appreciated.

e. Can the 5 ton rear hubs be flipped to mount 2 pc. HEMMT or MRAP wheels. I want the flush look all around and all of the tire / wheels to be interchangable so that I don't need two types of spare tires.

***OR***

2. Get a late model Ford F550 cab and chassis and build a 4 x 4, more nimble, lower profile, etc., but give up the multifuel and 6 x 6 big tire capacity and ability. this platform seems to be pretty widely used.

a. Pic of Perla Group Spartan attached, it looks just like what i'm trying to do, without the knuckboom, spare tires, etc., but I just don't know if I want to give up the multifuel.


I'm leaning toward the M52A2 set up as follows:

1. MRAP tires and wheels w/ runflats, all around (if that can be done)
2. Multifuel with onboard filter / centrifuge
3. Custom fabricated tube "body" with armor (or the closest to armor that i can get) insulated with polycarbonate (spall shield) and 1/8" 6061 alum. inner skin
4. Lots of other stuff too.

I'm adding this to this thread since I appreciate the replies from those that replied and look forward to more. I'm hoping to make and final decision and buy the truck, whichever I choose in the next 30 days. At that point, I'll start a build thread.

Thanks alot, any info...ANY info good or bad on the M52A2 5 ton multifuel tractor would be greatly appreciated. I know it's underpowered, but what about the trans, transfer case, or anything in the drivetrain?

Thank you!

 

[paulrance]

20k ouch. You can save you a ton by buying from a member here and have just as good quality of vehicle for half the money. **** i got a truck on 53s just about what your looking for i would sell for alot less then that and drive it to you. Unless you are out to pay high retail look around a little bit and research. I would choose a m818 over the m52 just due to the Cummins. It can burn mixtures of fuel also and will out preform the m52 in my humble opinion.

Winches can easily be added on both ends of the truck.
Hemmt rims will bolt directly to the truck no adapter plate needed like a 2 1/2 ton.

 

[Jimma]

The price is high look through the classifides on here first.

 

[73m819]

20k ouch. You can save you a ton by buying from a member here and have just as good quality of vehicle for half the money. **** i got a truck on 53s just about what your looking for i would sell for alot less then that and drive it to you. Unless you are out to pay high retail look around a little bit and research. I would choose a m818 over the m52 just due to the Cummins. It can burn mixtures of fuel also and will out preform the m52 in my humble opinion.

Winches can easily be added on both ends of the truck.
Hemmt rims will bolt directly to the truck no adapter plate needed like a 2 1/2 ton.

Can but not like it, VERY HARD on the IP (VERY EXPENSVE TO REPLACE), the Cummins is a DEASEL engine, designed to run on DEASEL only, what people do with their engine is one thing, just because they can DOES NOT mean they should, (their money, their engine)

 

[73m819]

First of all, thanks alot to everyone that replied to my post on this. I slowed down and spent the last couple of weeks researching here, online in general and actually going out and seeing different trucks at different dealers.

I'm no longer looking at the M816, and am looking at two possible directions to go with this.

1. Stay with my orignal 6 x 6 plan. I found an M52A2. It seems much better for my project than the M816 all around and...it's a multifuel, which I really want.

a. It is around a 1970, LDS-465-1A, spicer 5 spd. I found it at Oshkosh Equipment in Oshkosh, WI. They were nice and let me drive whatever I wanted. It's a little pricey in my opinion, but i haven't negaotiated yet. $20k asking price.

c. It has a spicer 5 spd., is that a good trans? It also has a sprag (?) to engage the front axle. Is that a good way to get the front engaged? Is this system tough and respected or is it a weak link that I should avoid.

d. I'll need front and rear winches, can they be fit on the M52A2? Any info on someone that can help with that would be greatly appreciated.

e. Can the 5 ton rear hubs be flipped to mount 2 pc. HEMMT or MRAP wheels. I want the flush look all around and all of the tire / wheels to be interchangable so that I don't need two types of spare tires.

***OR***
1. MRAP tires and wheels w/ runflats, all around (if that can be done)
2. Multifuel with onboard filter / centrifuge
3. Custom fabricated tube "body" with armor (or the closest to armor that i can get) insulated with polycarbonate (spall shield) and 1/8" 6061 alum. inner skin
4. Lots of other stuff too.

I'm adding this to this thread since I appreciate the replies from those that replied and look forward to more. I'm hoping to make and final decision and buy the truck, whichever I choose in the next 30 days. At that point, I'll start a build thread.

Thanks alot, any info...ANY info good or bad on the M52A2 5 ton multifuel tractor would be greatly appreciated. I know it's underpowered, but what about the trans, transfer case, or anything in the drivetrain?

Thank you!

You have to be KIDDING, $20k for a repainted truck, a little PRICEY is a under statement

The spicer is a STRONG trans, some of the gearing sucks, the SPRAG is VERY strong, works great as long as you do what you are supposed to do, very hard to break. The sprag is two overrunning clutches (F/R) when the rears spin (overrunning the front) the sprag engages ( auto FWD)

Yes, either mechanical drive or hyd.

Yes, but by going singles, you have just thrown away FOUR spars, with singles, ANY tire that dies WILL stop you at some point, NOT good in your scenario, with duels, in realite you have FIVE spars, ONLY the FRONTS are a stopper, you can drive a long way with flat outside duels

You DONOT went 53s, may look good, but in your build outline, look good does not mean SEVERABILTY, 53s are a MAJOR power suck, In your case you NEED power over speed and cool look, in a SHTF scenario speed WILL NOT be possible, POWER WILL be your friend.

 

[paulrance]

True 73. I over typed and didn't post correctly. It can burn mixture but not like a multi can. Little wmo filtered seems to keep ip lubed since this new low sulphur diesel isn't same blend these are used to

 

[73m819]

True 73. I over typed and didn't post correctly. It can burn mixture but not like a multi can. Little wmo filtered seems to keep ip lubed since this new low sulphur diesel isn't same blend these are used to

Better to use 2 stroke oil then wmo, wmo has acids that 2 stroke doesnot

 

[calvin3103]

HI-I have a 1955 M62 mulity fuel wrecker for you

you want to tear up a wrecker I am thinking of getting rid of my wrecker cheap 1955 LDS multifuel the boom is starting to leak the trun table barring is gone looks like a timken wheel bearing small thing, runs good but im loosing intrest because of my newly M936A1. The M62 wrecker is ready for some one to tear into, air over hydraluic just like my M52A1. the only problem is that t his is in Island of Oahu HI

 

[metalman99]

Hemmt rims will bolt directly to the truck no adapter plate needed like a 2 1/2 ton.

What about the rears to bolt the HEMMT wheels? Does something need to be done to the hubs, flip them or something? Is that a big deal?

Will the 395 MRAP tires around now fit on the HEMMT wheels? How about the run flat inserts from the MRAP also, will they fit on the HEMMT wheels?

Thansk for the help, this is one of the biggest issues for me to work out. The right tire / wheel combo with run flats.

 

[KsM715]

Tank won't work, we want it to be road legal. I've attached a sketch to show what i'm trying to do. I'm actually more capable than the sketch shows, it's just to show quickly what i want to do.

Big tires and lots of power to keep it from getting stuck or to drive over stranded cars.

Winches to get unstuck.

Armored cab for added safety.

Payload capacity to carry:

fuel
knuckleboom winch (to load / unload tires, etc.)
genset
compressor
water
food
weapons
welder
spare tires
wmo filtration (for multifuel)
plus lots of other items, medical, ammo, etc.

It's intended to be a fun project for my two sons and I and will likely take a year or more to complete. They'll learn how to handle the tools and fabricate.

So you want a vehicle that is road legal but you want to drive on the road with a mounted weapon and be able to drive over stranded or stuck vehicles? If it does come to an actual "bug out" situation why would you be concerned with getting pulled over for not being legal?

Sorry, I just don't think people think this stuff out very well.

I thought we were going to quit doing the "bug out" stuff and leave that to the prepper websites.

 

[Csm Davis]

Okay well you can tag a tank in some states but if you want a target painted on you go ahead and build and or buy something like you have pictured there, also isn't a v100 something like that? If you want something that doesn't shout look at me I am armored! So get the big gun! Make it look semi normal outside but armor it so the gangbanger down the street takes a pot shot at the military truck does no harm and you keep rolling out of town.

 

[Csm Davis]

By the way that truck is to obvious for my likes with the armor. Lose all the bolts they are not needed and they scream uparmored.