M923a1 failure, need input.

[elkhtr]

Don't forget either to put the caging pin assemblies ( i.e. 'pin" the brakes) in the rear brake chambers or supply air between the towing vehicle and the towed truck to keep the brakes released. 809s and such did not have this issue.

Thats funny, when she broke down the driver of the semi wrecker hooked up to it and was trying to retract his boom with the hydraulics.
Had to remind him that with air the truck will roll much easier.

 

[elkhtr]

M923 Deadlined-water in the oil

Some of you may have seen the thread on the inital failure.
Drained the "oil" got thirteen gallons where there should have been seven.
Pulled the pan, no chunks, all looked good.
Refilled cooling system, pressurized to about 15 p.s.i.
Coolant began to drip out around #1 piston.
Several members have offered up help, both physical and reasonably priced replacement engines.
Thanks Gents!
At this point I think I will pull the liner to determine the cause before a final decision on what to do, repair/replace.
Couple of questions.
Does anyone have input on the liner pulling tool, can one be built at home that is adequate to do the job.
The pics in the tech manual of the liner puller left a little to be desired.
To those who have done this, how much force does it require to pull it, pounds, tons?
Any advice, what not to do, or watch out for.
Thanks.

 

[Suprman]

I bought the liner kit used on eBay and used it on an 8.3 sleeve it's turn the end till the sleeve lifts out basically like any puller. The 8.3 sleeve came out pretty easy. It had eaten a ring so although scored and scraped the sleeve was intact. You may be able to rent a puller somewhere. I personally like having tools around you never know when you will need it again. It's a big suitcase thing full of gadgets.

 

[elkhtr]

I bought the liner kit used on eBay and used it on an 8.3 sleeve it's turn the end till the sleeve lifts out basically like any puller. The 8.3 sleeve came out pretty easy. It had eaten a ring so although scored and scraped the sleeve was intact. You may be able to rent a puller somewhere. I personally like having tools around you never know when you will need it again. It's a big suitcase thing full of gadgets.

I looked on ebay, didnt find a puller for the cummins.
found some online, but hey started at 600.00
I have machining and welding equipment, if it doesn't take tons of force I can come up with something.
Tech manual showed an installation tool also, I need to read up on that.

 

[162tcat]

Try a local diesel shop. I borrowed some specialty tools from a mobile mechanic once, he was very interested in my trucks. The 855 engines are still common but not many people rebuilding them so the tools are out there.

 

[wrenchturner6238]

Hello
If you have equipment to machine; you could make a plate made with a lip for the liner so it will pass through the hole in the block and use a hydraulic jack and an extension to jack the liner out of the block. This liner will be fairly easy to push out it is NOT like the newer cummins that are lower press fit. The possible cause of you coolant leak could be cavation which is not taking care of the coolant. DCA is very important in a diesel engine ( just for your future info)

 

[Jeepsinker]

The liners seal with rubber o-rings. It doesn't take a whole lot of force to remove the liners.

 

[elkhtr]

Hello
If you have equipment to machine; you could make a plate made with a lip for the liner so it will pass through the hole in the block and use a hydraulic jack and an extension to jack the liner out of the block. This liner will be fairly easy to push out it is NOT like the newer cummins that are lower press fit. The possible cause of you coolant leak could be cavation which is not taking care of the coolant. DCA is very important in a diesel engine ( just for your future info)

Interesting idea pushing it from the bottom, the crank is still in the engine, if there is enough room I might try that.
Thanks

 

[swbradley1]

You could buy a tool or just make one similar to this one couldn't you?

 

[elkhtr]

You could buy a tool or just make one similar to this one couldn't you?

View attachment 525247

Yes, not ever having done this I just wasn't sure how much force was required.
Others have shared that these aren't "pressed" in, so it shouldn't require that much force.
Thanks for the pic, do you know if the puller needs to be that tall for an nhc 250?

 

[swbradley1]

No idea but I'm guessing yes. Heck, if you make one make the legs removable and have a short set and a long set. Me I would build it heavier and just have it tall.

That is just a picture I got off the Internet.

Do a search on Google for diesel engine sleeve puller and click images and let your imagination run wild.

 

[wreckerman893]

I built one to pull the liner out of a 250. I think I still have it, if so I'll post pics.

If I remember it did not give up without a fight but mechanical advantage is your friend.

 

[wrenchturner6238]

You turn the journal of crankshaft to the side; It will get out of the way enough for the extension to go through.

 

[elkhtr]

You turn the journal of crankshaft to the side; It will get out of the way enough for the extension to go through.

Gonna ask because I've never done it before.
What is the best way to rotate one of these big buggers by hand?
Or do I have to bump it into position with the starter then pull the rod bolts.

 

[wrenchturner6238]

Dont bump it with the starter. (something bad could happen) use a 1 1/4" or 1 5/16" 3/4" drive socket and turn it over on the accessory drive pulley nut. It won't turn over that hard.

 

[o1951]

Dont bump it with the starter. (something bad could happen) use a 1 1/4" or 1 5/16" 3/4" drive socket and turn it over on the accessory drive pulley nut. It won't turn over that hard.

Right! I also suggest removing battery cables as an extra layer of safety. To make fine adjustments, I have moved it with judicious use of a big blade screwdriver in the ring gear teeth, and shaft against bell housing. I say judicious because you are not honking on screwdriver. Just moving it a bit to line things up or get clearance. No compression is being built up, so as wrenchturner says, it turns easy.

 

[hailstone]

the seal around the liner could be bad or the liner may have a pin hole in it Also check the oil cooler for leaks. I have used a hydrolic jack and a piece of wood to push up the liner on the 350NTC Cummins. Worked real nice doing it in a truckstop over labor Day weekend about 20 years ago. JMO

 

[elkhtr]

Allright gentlemen.
I am going to try to get to it this weekend.
I appreciate the advice!

 

[elkhtr]

Update! m923 water in oil, need advice from the gurus.

So it's cavitation erosion.
Any one who has fought this battle before, I would love to hear from you.
If it has occurred in one cylinder, has it likely chewed on all of them?.
Thanks Wrenchturner6238 for your suggestion of pushing the liner from underneath.
I machined a block of aluminum to fit, hit it with the Enerpac, and out she came.
It did start to lift the truck before it popped, tools and parts were raining everywhere.
The only good news from this weekend is that the Mutt's heart transplant is looking good..
Looking forward to some sage advice.

 

[juanprado]

So it's cavitation erosion.
Any one who has fought this battle before, I would love to hear from you.
If it has occurred in one cylinder, has it likely chewed on all of them?.
Thanks Wrenchturner6238 for your suggestion of pushing the liner from underneath.
I machined a block of aluminum to fit, hit it with the Enerpac, and out she came.
It did start to lift the truck before it popped, tools and parts were raining everywhere.
The only good news from this weekend is that the Mutt's heart transplant is looking good..
Looking forward to some sage advice.

Thanks for the update.

Interesting article here on cavitation erosion.
http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/articles.html/_/dtsarticles/cavitation-erosion-r27

Best of luck with your rebuild!