M923A2 Cold Start

[Tinstar]

When we operate helos in cold like that everything gets heated if there isn't hanger space or when at an FOB.
All helos in theater are already prepped for it.
All gearboxes, engine and hydraulic tanks, battery's and space heater(s) inside cabin.

Even with all that, when it's super cold, still have to idle after start for a bit to warm things up.

Even War slows down a bit in the cold.
Effects everything and everyone......on both sides.

Luckly it doesn't get that cold here.
I only have block heaters and don't use them often.

 

[71DeuceAK]

Jbulach, yes the small outboard boat motors are water-cooled. I can tell you from personal experience that they sometimes clog with kelp, etc. in the water and quit "peeing" (the stream literally looks like...ya know...) and they can overheat.

 

[Jericho]

Aircraft arnt as susceptible (nor Helo's) all the fluids are all ready good for arctic operations as a rule, Remember when at altitude its not unusual to find forty to fifty below Most helos can manage 10k ASL , some 24 K , Hangaring isn't really good for them , your better off leaving the jets out all the time, its called cold soaking and the jet, seals gaskets fuel ect get used to it. other wise your stuck in a constant up and down cycle , mouisture , freezing ect. Once you get a jet cold soaked and the mouisture out it flys /starts/launches very well. Oil for example Mil -L -7808 aircraft engine oil is good for desert to the arctic, no change need, is all basicly synthetic zero "weight" in truck terms. Mil -L -5606 Hyd fluid is about the same . Warm up is good , but not required. all the systems can take max pressure for that very reason, a 3 min ZULU ALERT Launch happens regardless and the majority of the Alert Force sat out side alert in the NORTHERN TIER bases for 60 years. Helos tend to be hangered more simply to negate the need to deice the control surfaces , rotors and the body , usually a slender lift ratio on them to start compared to an Eight engine B 52

 

[Jericho]

I have one, its gas fired, will try to take some photos, basicly a small tort gas fired burner with a 12 volt circulating pump and QDs. Here in the north Skiders and winter equipment use them all the time as well as "PIGGY BACKING" where you have your truck coolant system tied into the Dozer for example with QDd lines, you sit in your truck and leave your heater on, when it starts to blow hot again your dozer/skidder/ whatever, block is hot and it will fire right off, takes about 20 min , have used it down to - 47 below.

 

[Tinstar]

Aircraft arnt as susceptible (nor Helo's) all the fluids are all ready good for arctic operations as a rule, Remember when at altitude its not unusual to find forty to fifty below Most helos can manage 10k ASL , some 24 K , Hangaring isn't really good for them , your better off leaving the jets out all the time, its called cold soaking and the jet, seals gaskets fuel ect get used to it. other wise your stuck in a constant up and down cycle , mouisture , freezing ect. Once you get a jet cold soaked and the mouisture out it flys /starts/launches very well. Oil for example Mil -L -7808 aircraft engine oil is good for desert to the arctic, no change need, is all basicly synthetic zero "weight" in truck terms. Mil -L -5606 Hyd fluid is about the same . Warm up is good , but not required. all the systems can take max pressure for that very reason, a 3 min ZULU ALERT Launch happens regardless and the majority of the Alert Force sat out side alert in the NORTHERN TIER bases for 60 years. Helos tend to be hangered more simply to negate the need to deice the control surfaces , rotors and the body , usually a slender lift ratio on them to start compared to an Eight engine B 52

I know nothing about jets.
Been flying helos for over 28 years.
Want to get technical, we can over in another forum.

Just like the trucks, push it hard when cold soaked and you will have problems.

The point of the earlier post was to keep things warm, when able, in the first place.

 

[86m1028]

I make small portable hand carry Honda powered gasoline powered 12v and 24v generators. The market has 120v generators covered. There are also diesel fuel fired coolant heaters.

But, your truck should have started. I did an -11F cold start with ether on my A2 and it started well. If your fuel system is air leak free, your batteries are less than 5 years old and test at or above their CCA rating, and your ether system has fluid and is known working properly (it only sprays while cranking, hold button down for 3 seconds and release, repeat if need be), it should not need any of the forementioned external starting aids.

May be lower cost and right direction to modernize the high current system such as starter, alternator, batteries, and update the soft fuel lines and overflow valve in the injection pump if you have not done so yet. Stock alternators are terrible at best, modern gear reduction starters pull 50 amps less current and have higher cold cranking speeds, and the soft fuel lines and overflow valve are known issues to need service after decades of use.

What are are you calling an overflow valve ???

 

[74M35A2]

It is the spring loaded fuel return valve in the 8.3L injection pump. It is a failure prone maintenance item. It is built into the bolt which fastens the banjo fitting on the fuel return line, at the front of the injection pump. Its purpose is to create and maintain some pressure in the low pressure side fuel delivery system, to properly charge the injection pump barrels. I think stock configuration is like 13psi or so, don't quote me on it. If it is stuck open, it can act a lot like the truck has no fuel, well, because there would be little to none being delivered to the injectors.

One way to test or field "clean" it, is to pinch the rubber fuel return line just out of the pump with Vice-Grips, and start the truck. At 30 seconds or prior, release the Vice-Grips. This will somewhat "flush" the valve, but it is such a simple and low cost part, it is really better to just replace it. RV'ers are the largest personally owned group of 8.3L users I have found, and they post a lot of their issues and resolutions there. Hence, where I found it. This is not a Cummins recommended procedure, and only do it at idle speed. The condition of this valve and the air-tightness of your fuel delivery system including the rubber lines and tank dip tube is critical to cold start speed.

 

[wbread99]

Aircraft arnt as susceptible (nor Helo's) all the fluids are all ready good for arctic operations as a rule, Remember when at altitude its not unusual to find forty to fifty below Most helos can manage 10k ASL , some 24 K , Hangaring isn't really good for them , your better off leaving the jets out all the time, its called cold soaking and the jet, seals gaskets fuel ect get used to it. other wise your stuck in a constant up and down cycle , mouisture , freezing ect. Once you get a jet cold soaked and the mouisture out it flys /starts/launches very well. Oil for example Mil -L -7808 aircraft engine oil is good for desert to the arctic, no change need, is all basicly synthetic zero "weight" in truck terms. Mil -L -5606 Hyd fluid is about the same . Warm up is good , but not required. all the systems can take max pressure for that very reason, a 3 min ZULU ALERT Launch happens regardless and the majority of the Alert Force sat out side alert in the NORTHERN TIER bases for 60 years. Helos tend to be hangered more simply to negate the need to deice the control surfaces , rotors and the body , usually a slender lift ratio on them to start compared to an Eight engine B 52

Hey brother this is my life. We have 8 UH-1Ns assigned and we never attempt to cold soak. We find that the engines never start on autos, and none of the instruments tend to like cold temperatures. If we can get them started in manual, we find our aircraft are as ready as the aircrew are as willing to tap on the cold soaked instruments.

 

[Jbulach]

Now, when the OP needs to start his aircraft, he still wont know the best procedure...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Stranger]

Fresh, strong batteries are a must.

I was having difficulty getting my M923 (NHC-250) started on 0 degree days. My battery tester revealed that I was only getting half the cold cranking amps from my batteries. Swapped them out and it fired up with no ether required.

 

[Tinstar]

Now, when the OP needs to start his aircraft, he still wont know the best procedure...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I only mentioned the helos because of the need, like our trucks, to keep things warm in the first place instead of dealing with the trucks cold soaked.
Its easier to start a 5 ton when its been plugged in. (if a block heater is installed).

It morphed into Helicopter Cold Weather Operations.

My apologies for starting it.

 

[WYomer]

Anybody think about using a stick on reptile tank heating pad with some flashing type aluminum tape over it for on the tranny pan? My engine is ok with a block heater but the tranny takes forever to heat up and after it puked hydraulic oil out the dipstick when I ran it cold its my #1 concern in cold weather.

 

[Stranger]

Anybody think about using a stick on reptile tank heating pad with some flashing type aluminum tape over it for on the tranny pan? My engine is ok with a block heater but the tranny takes forever to heat up and after it puked hydraulic oil out the dipstick when I ran it cold its my #1 concern in cold weather.

I have used a couple Kat's Hot Pad Heaters before. However, I switched to magnetic pan heaters because of issues getting the pads to stay stuck to any oily pan.

https://www.amazon.com/Kats-24150-W...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=VPN6XYRNK41RSTBP9FVH

 

[74M35A2]

Slight derail, to all you in the know, I'm looking for a timed out turbine engine for a marine project. Thrust or shaft power delivery OK.

 

[BKubu]

Slight derail, to all you in the know, I'm looking for a timed out turbine engine for a marine project. Thrust or shaft power delivery OK.

I would suggest starting a new thread as you may miss people who do not read this particular thread. Good luck!

 

[NEIOWA]

Slight derail, to all you in the know, I'm looking for a timed out turbine engine for a marine project. Thrust or shaft power delivery OK.

Sam uses 400hz gensets what have a small turbine for power. 72kw I think. These are small 4 wheel enclosed trailers. As 400hz I'd think sell very cheap.

 

[Jericho]

Look for an MA1A air start cart commonly called a "Ploosh " or a Dash -60 power unit. Dash sixty ran a 397 -71a

 

[coachgeo]

Fresh, strong .....

Sir possibly interested in some parts you have but your inbox is full...... cant reach you. I know these threads are old but its only way to get a message to you