M931A1 carrying capacity.

[simp5782]

Yes. Have to get a customers broker to clear the shipment into canada. Livingston international is one i use. They can do a one time clearance. I would have to check on freight cost. Would have to remove the lower walking beam bolts and install it on a pallet. LTL may be high. Might check on uship for a shipper to get it to near seattle for you on a flatbed could be cheaper. 8ft 3in wide. And you carry it across the border. PM me your zip code and ill see what it is.

 

[Redbaron1]

Yes. Have to get a customers broker to clear the shipment into canada. Livingston international is one i use. They can do a one time clearance. I would have to check on freight cost. Would have to remove the lower walking beam bolts and install it on a pallet. LTL may be high. Might check on uship for a shipper to get it to near seattle for you on a flatbed could be cheaper. 8ft 3in wide. And you carry it across the border. PM me your zip code and ill see what it is.

How do you pm on here?

 

[Jbulach]

I will be running something like BKT FL635's. (750/45R22.5). Max speed loaded about 40 km/hr, field speed 5 km/hr.

I have been searching for real published load ratings on these axles for years, and have a feeling you are going to be pushing the limits of your steer axles, hopefully Glengineer will get some concrete info from the source!
The most I can get is 12-13,000 lb on my steer when hauling stone, but when moving sticky clay off road I’m guessing closer to 15,000 lb.

Those BKT FL635 are some sweet looking tires, I would love to be able to justify a set for my truck! Any idea how much you will have to spread the rear tandems to allow for the rear axle to steer, I wonder if bridge truck springs and torque rods would get you enough? Also, can you run closer to 10 km/hr in the field? This would put you in a better rpm range, (first gear, low range). Braking on 49” tires, 3 axle up to 48,000 you can’t hardly tell you have a load on (except the ride is sooo much better), above that you start to feel the weight and increased pedal pressure is needed.
Can’t wait to see the results, make sure you do a build thread for us!

 

[Redbaron1]

I have been searching for real published load ratings on these axles for years, and have a feeling you are going to be pushing the limits of your steer axles, hopefully Glengineer will get some concrete info from the source!
View attachment 788919 The most I can get is 12-13,000 lb on my steer when hauling stone, but when moving sticky clay off road I’m guessing closer to 15,000 lb.View attachment 788920

Those BKT FL635 are some sweet looking tires, I would love to be able to justify a set for my truck! Any idea how much you will have to spread the rear tandems to allow for the rear axle to steer, I wonder if bridge truck springs and torque rods would get you enough? Also, can you run closer to 10 km/hr in the field? This would put you in a better rpm range, (first gear, low range). Braking on 49” tires, 3 axle up to 48,000 you can’t hardly tell you have a load on (except the ride is sooo much better), above that you start to feel the weight and increased pedal pressure is needed.
Can’t wait to see the results, make sure you do a build thread for us!

I assume bridge truck springs are longer? Not familiar. I had the spacing all figured out with the A4000 axles which was my first plan, but haven't penciled it out for the five ton set up if I go that route. The 5 ton fronts don't turn as tight, so the rear won't have to either. Probably sacrifice a bit on turn radius compared to the A4000's. So I was wondering about the speeds - with the 5 spd Allison you are saying that it's about 10 km/hr in first low range at about what...1500 rpm? thx.

 

[Redbaron1]

I assume bridge truck springs are longer? Not familiar. I had the spacing all figured out with the A4000 axles which was my first plan, but haven't penciled it out for the five ton set up if I go that route. The 5 ton fronts don't turn as tight, so the rear won't have to either. Probably sacrifice a bit on turn radius compared to the A4000's. So I was wondering about the speeds - with the 5 spd Allison you are saying that it's about 10 km/hr in first low range at about what...1500 rpm? thx.

Found this from Memphis Equipment Company with axle weight ratings.

 

[Redbaron1]

Follow the bridge formula

The figures of 12,000, 17,000, and 17,000 - are those supposed to be gross or payload? thx

 

[simp5782]

That is max weight per axle with a load

 

[Redbaron1]

That is max weight per axle with a load

But what about the weight of the chassis/cab etc? Does this not figure into the weight on axles? Sorry, not understanding. I thought the front axle could handle 20,000?

 

[simp5782]

But what about the weight of the chassis/cab etc? Does this not figure into the weight on axles? Sorry, not understanding. I thought the front axle could handle 20,000?

Front axle weight in that book is maxed out by the tires. 14.00s are rated at 9000lbs each. So 18k max with those tires. The front axle and springs are rated at 20k. That bridge formula is based on a standard truck.Now a 6x6 unit. Also it says 20ft between the front axle and rear most axle. That is our DOT formula here in the states.

The max on the rears tho is 17k each loaded for a 34k total. This includes the weight of the truck. See the below weight ticket. This is why trucks have pusher axles is to increase weight rating. It can carry over 3 axles vs 2.

A loaded M923 with a loaded double axle tag trailer. 78k

A M915 with an empty M870A1 trailer 39k

My M923 empty weight in one of its mod setups is 26k



My m923. WITH 5th wheel dolly. towing Double axle trailer with a M932A0 on it was 71k

A heavy tag trailer actually decreases steering axle weight due to tongue weight.

 

[Redbaron1]

Front axle weight in that book is maxed out by the tires. 14.00s are rated at 9000lbs each. So 18k max with those tires. The front axle and springs are rated at 20k. That bridge formula is based on a standard truck.Now a 6x6 unit. Also it says 20ft between the front axle and rear most axle. That is our DOT formula here in the states.

The max on the rears tho is 17k each loaded for a 34k total. This includes the weight of the truck. See the below weight ticket. This is why trucks have pusher axles is to increase weight rating. It can carry over 3 axles vs 2.

A loaded M923 with a loaded double axle tag trailer. 78k

A M915 with an empty M870A1 trailer 39k

My M923 empty weight in one of its mod setups is 26k



My m923. WITH 5th wheel dolly. towing Double axle trailer with a M932A0 on it was 71k

A heavy tag trailer actually decreases steering axle weight due to tongue weight.

What do you think if this info? Is it accurate? Do five tons have different axles with different ratings? I am surprised that your info says that the rear solid axles individually are rated for less than a steer. (17k vs 20k).

 

[Redbaron1]

I am in contact with a rep from meritor military division trying to get the proper capacity ratings from them for the axles on my M931A1 ,I will post that info if I am successful .

This is what I found from

I am in contact with a rep from meritor military division trying to get the proper capacity ratings from them for the axles on my M931A1 ,I will post that info if I am successful .

I found this from Memphis...

 

[simp5782]

This is what I found from

I found this from Memphis...

Yes. The rear axle assembly is rated a 44,000# walking beam. How ever in this country the truck falls under a commercial vehicle in most states. Therefore it can't exceed the bridge formula on a short or standard wheel base truck. A long wheel base truck can exceed the bridge formula due to the distance between the front and rear axle.

 

[Redbaron1]

I am in contact with a rep from meritor military division trying to get the proper capacity ratings from them for the axles on my M931A1 ,I will post that info if I am successful .

Yes. The rear axle assembly is rated a 44,000# walking beam. How ever in this country the truck falls under a commercial vehicle in most states. Therefore it can't exceed the bridge formula on a short or standard wheel base truck. A long wheel base truck can exceed the bridge formula due to the distance between the front and rear axle.

Oh, I see. I was wondering why you were giving me different figures. I guess I should have made it clear in the OP that this will be a Self Propelled Implement of Husbandry, which falls under different vehicle guidelines in BC. Early on in this thread, when we were talking tires, I mentioned that I would have 24" wide rims with 750's for width (30"), which puts me far out of the category of legal commercial (8.5') without a permit. (SPIH are allowed up to 14' wide without a permit. I will be approx 11.5') Sorry I didn't make this more clear and caused us to talk past each other, by bad.

My only concern is what the axles are rated to carry. Once that is established, I can figure out the rest:
- how much a rear tandem will carry made up of a solid intermediate and front axle used as a rear-rear steer
- what angle the rear-rear steer will need to steer to follow radius of vehicle based on front steer angle and wheel base from front to intermediate
- whether there is room for it to steer at that angle without touching frame/suspension, etc
- if I will have to add a drop steer axle or front steer (tandem steer) to stay within axle ratings

Thanks for your input on this simp5782.

 

[simp5782]

Oh, I see. I was wondering why you were giving me different figures. I guess I should have made it clear in the OP that this will be a Self Propelled Implement of Husbandry, which falls under different vehicle guidelines in BC. Early on in this thread, when we were talking tires, I mentioned that I would have 24" wide rims with 750's for width (30"), which puts me far out of the category of legal commercial (8.5') without a permit. (SPIH are allowed up to 14' wide without a permit. I will be approx 11.5') Sorry I didn't make this more clear and caused us to talk past each other, by bad.

My only concern is what the axles are rated to carry. Once that is established, I can figure out the rest:
- how much a rear tandem will carry made up of a solid intermediate and front axle used as a rear-rear steer
- what angle the rear-rear steer will need to steer to follow radius of vehicle based on front steer angle and wheel base from front to intermediate
- whether there is room for it to steer at that angle without touching frame/suspension, etc
- if I will have to add a drop steer axle or front steer (tandem steer) to stay within axle ratings

Thanks for your input on this simp5782.

 

[simp5782]

You will probably break axle shafts more than likely. some loggers that use the lwb trucks as bunk trucks break them from time to time.

The specs on the rear axle setup i have are listed below.

Or i mean honestly for more capacity and length. Cut the frame and weld a MK17 or 18 rear unit to the 5 ton. Member pctrans did that on an older 809 series 5 ton

 

[Redbaron1]

You will probably break axle shafts more than likely. some loggers that use the lwb trucks as bunk trucks break them from time to time.

The specs on the rear axle setup i have are listed below.

Or i mean honestly for more capacity and length. Cut the frame and weld a MK17 or 18 rear unit to the 5 ton. Member pctrans did that on an older 809 series 5 ton

But I still need to replace the rear-rear of the tandem with a steer. Hence the rating of the steer is important to me. Also, why are they breaking axle shafts? Wouldn't that have more to do with torque applied, not weight on axle?

 

[Glenngineer]

Found this from Memphis Equipment Company with axle weight ratings.

I have talked to Meritor AM General C&C equipment and No luck on any axle specs more than hear say Even asked Memphis equipment were they got there info and they didn't really know.

 

[simp5782]

Wrecker springs will increase the load capacity.

Wrecker data plate shown below
Wreckers have a frame reinforcement as well. They just have 7 springs equal to the 2 bottom leafs from the pyramid pack.

I have broken the pyramid spring packs before.

 

[Glenngineer]

But I still need to replace the rear-rear of the tandem with a steer. Hence the rating of the steer is important to me. Also, why are they breaking axle shafts? Wouldn't that have more to do with torque applied, not weight on axle?

Here are copies of the best info I could find. The last pic confirms the front axle's 20,000lb capacity

 

[Redbaron1]

Here are copies of the best info I could find. The last pic confirms the front axle's 20,000lb capacity

Thanks for that. I appreciate all the replies to my questions. I did a lot of measuring and figuring and concluded that for what I want in the end product, the 931a1 isn't going to work. There is just too much butchering and redoing suspension, steering, engine, etc before I have what I am aiming for. I decided to go with a set of two axletech 5000's - a front steer and rear solid. 4 wheel drive instead of 6, but bigger tires. (800/65 r32's), with the rear on a turntable. Each axle will turn at 20 degrees, giving me a decent turning radius and crab steer capability. Plus a 7.56 ratio, giving me a perfect step of ratios from 1 to 5 in the allison, top speed of 50 k, and air diff lockers.