M939 series winch PTO hydraulic pump and drive adapted to M809/M939 series winch to a M809 series 5 ton.

[Superthermal]

Looking into options on adapting an M939 series winch onto an M809 series 5 ton. Reservoir, PTO, Pump, Hydraulic lines,Drive and Winch. First off the M809 winch from what I am reading is the same as the M939 series... Correct? if so I need to adapt the Spicer driven PTO to drive the hydraulic pump... Is this the way it is done? Or do I need the rear transfer case PTO nomally found on the M816 to drive the pump? With all the winches out there this has to have been done countless time but cannot seem to find a thread that covers the details. So before I over think this can someone point me to what is needed?

Learned from other threads:
1. Not all M939 series winch components are the same:
1.2. Two different M9393 PTO units, one with a removable plate that helps with the backlash adjustment and each has a top bolt that is tightened different.
1.3. Multiple mounting options, One where the Hydraulic drive is directly coupled to the PTO winch and one where the Hydraulic drive is mounted rearward and then coupled to the winch by a driveshaft.
1.4. There are different lengths of driveshafts when they are used.

2. There is a feeling that the hydraulic driven mode allows the winch to exceed 20K as the top "rating"
3. There are multiple reservoirs and mounting types.

On another note in trying still to buy up an M813 already with a winch I have noted that the shaft is broken or missing. I am guessing this is due to the winch being seized and the shaft busting trying to turn it OR the unit was overloaded and twisted off the shaft... any input on this? So part of the reason for my questions is if I purchase an M813 with a winch that is busted or inoperable what my possible options are.

 

[G744]

The front crossmember will be in the way of the hydraulic motor on the winch.

Much easier to fab a flat steel plate with holes to mount the motor below the winch, driven with two sprockets and Browning chain.

Sorry, I didn't take any pix when I did this mod.

On the 800-series, if the winch doesn't work it is usually the driveshaft shear pin.

DG

 

[Superthermal]

The front crossmember will be in the way of the hydraulic motor on the winch.

Much easier to fab a flat steel plate with holes to mount the motor below the winch, driven with two sprockets and Browning chain.

Sorry, I didn't take any pix when I did this mod.

On the 800-series, if the winch doesn't work it is usually the driveshaft shear pin.

DG

The Shear pin is like a mechanical "Fuse"? Interesting.
When you did this hydraulic modification how did you tie in the hydraulic pump?

 

[G744]

I used the existing steering pump with electric valves so they could control the winch from inside and outside.

Not the optimum GPM, but it worked fine with a little throttle pulled out.

DG

 

[US6x4]

On another note in trying still to buy up an M813 already with a winch I have noted that the shaft is broken or missing.

When I was shopping for M813s I noticed that every M818 tractor for sale had a winch. Seemed the odds of finding an M818 w/w was much higher than finding an M813 w/w. That could be an option if you were also wanting a short wheel base.

 

[MyothersanM1]

As mentioned before, the hurdle is adapting the hydraulic motor mounting to clear the front crossmember. I was going to do the mod after a transmission upgrade. I later decided not to and stick with the mechanical drive.
I do have the pump, pump bracket, and the frame mounted oil tank. I also have a slightly higher volume motor and custom bracket if you're interested.

 

[DeMilitarized]

As mentioned before, the hurdle is adapting the hydraulic motor mounting to clear the front crossmember. I was going to do the mod after a transmission upgrade. I later decided not to and stick with the mechanical drive.
I do have the pump, pump bracket, and the frame mounted oil tank. I also have a slightly higher volume motor and custom bracket if you're interested.

Do you happen to have a pto for the m939 truck?

 

[MyothersanM1]

Do you happen to have a pto for the m939 truck?

No, that I don’t have.

 

[Superthermal]

As mentioned before, the hurdle is adapting the hydraulic motor mounting to clear the front crossmember. I was going to do the mod after a transmission upgrade. I later decided not to and stick with the mechanical drive.
I do have the pump, pump bracket, and the frame mounted oil tank. I also have a slightly higher volume motor and custom bracket if you're interested.

I now have the rig, without a winch. However, I splurged and purchased a rebuilt Garwood with the level-wind in OHIO and I also purchased from them just in case a new PTO box. If I was to try to do the stock setup I would need the linkage, drive shaft and frame rail extensions. If I go this route, if I ever swap in a big cam with a different transmission (Likely choice is a Eaton RTO 16908LL) I will need to modify and buy a different PTO and lengthen/shorten the drive shaft (if it even fits). But if I can from the get go put in a hydraulic drive setup I am ahead. So, on the parts your mentioning the pump... how does it mount? Engine driven? What kind of pressure does it make? Do you know the GPM? Do I need to have a cooler? Pressure regulator? Would this let the winch exceed the 20k listed as some people say? (not that I want to bust the 5/8" cable) Let me know how this works. Thanks for all the help and input it is greatly appreciate.

 

[Superthermal]

I used the existing steering pump with electric valves so they could control the winch from inside and outside.

Not the optimum GPM, but it worked fine with a little throttle pulled out.

DG

Was this on an M809 series? Using the stock steering pump? The electric valves... I would rather not but I could install some air actuated valves to take their place. Maybe something like this:


The browning chain, can you tell me more? You were able to find a sprocket that fit the input shaft diameter? Do you remember the ratio if needed? What pump drive did you use? Double chain set up? Since this could get some rocks in it I would need to enclose the chain and sprockets.

 

[G744]

Not an 809, rather my M54A1.

The Mack engine has a gear drive hydraulic pump, mounted inline with the Bosch injection pump on the driver's side.

Bearing, Belt & Chain in Phoenix had what I needed.

Rocks in the chain? I don't think that will ever happen with it, and if it did I'd just nudge it in reverse to dislodge them.

DG

 

[MyothersanM1]

I now have the rig, without a winch. However, I splurged and purchased a rebuilt Garwood with the level-wind in OHIO and I also purchased from them just in case a new PTO box. If I was to try to do the stock setup I would need the linkage, drive shaft and frame rail extensions. If I go this route, if I ever swap in a big cam with a different transmission (Likely choice is a Eaton RTO 16908LL) I will need to modify and buy a different PTO and lengthen/shorten the drive shaft (if it even fits). But if I can from the get go put in a hydraulic drive setup I am ahead. So, on the parts your mentioning the pump... how does it mount? Engine driven? What kind of pressure does it make? Do you know the GPM? Do I need to have a cooler? Pressure regulator? Would this let the winch exceed the 20k listed as some people say? (not that I want to bust the 5/8" cable) Let me know how this works. Thanks for all the help and input it is greatly appreciate.

It is the pump designated for the 20K winch. It mounts (on an M939-series truck) inside the frame rail on a 90-degree bracket (I have this also). According to the spec sheet I have, it makes 14GPM at 1200rpm/100psi (I can attach spec sheet later). It is PTO driven. It only requires a filter (I have the filter and mount b/n) and no cooler or regulator per the M939 install.

 

[MyothersanM1]

I now have the rig, without a winch. However, I splurged and purchased a rebuilt Garwood with the level-wind in OHIO and I also purchased from them just in case a new PTO box. If I was to try to do the stock setup I would need the linkage, drive shaft and frame rail extensions. If I go this route, if I ever swap in a big cam with a different transmission (Likely choice is a Eaton RTO 16908LL) I will need to modify and buy a different PTO and lengthen/shorten the drive shaft (if it even fits). But if I can from the get go put in a hydraulic drive setup I am ahead. So, on the parts your mentioning the pump... how does it mount? Engine driven? What kind of pressure does it make? Do you know the GPM? Do I need to have a cooler? Pressure regulator? Would this let the winch exceed the 20k listed as some people say? (not that I want to bust the 5/8" cable) Let me know how this works. Thanks for all the help and input it is greatly appreciate.

This is the pump part number: 26VQ14A-1C-20.
The spec sheet is attached. See page 15 for this pump's specs.

 

[Superthermal]

OK, I am going to think this through. I will try to find a M939 here locally and check out the brackets on the winch to see if I can adapt them to my frame , unless you know they are a bolt in.

 

[MyothersanM1]

OK, I am going to think this through. I will try to find a M939 here locally and check out the brackets on the winch to see if I can adapt them to my frame , unless you know they are a bolt in.

The M939-series and the M809-series frame extensions are different. They are not interchangeable as delivered. I have not done it, but there may be a possibility they can be modified.
These are the M809 specific extensions and brackets (w/ part numbers) you need to mount up the 20K winch.

 

[Superthermal]

Good to know! I hadn't anticipated that issue. I hope someone out there has a set they can part with without gouging me toooo bad. Thanks for helping me not buy something I didn't need.
To be specific...all the winches are interchangeable..i.e. the mounting bolt holes are the same but the frames are just different enough to need a different set of frame and bracket extensions. Correct?

 

[US6x4]

The PNW Steel Soldiers group had a post about an 809 PTO mated to a hydraulic pump for sale. Not sure if you'll be able to see it, but here's the link:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/339623506135698/permalink/4790641381033866/

 

[MyothersanM1]

Good to know! I hadn't anticipated that issue. I hope someone out there has a set they can part with without gouging me toooo bad. Thanks for helping me not buy something I didn't need.
To be specific...all the winches are interchangeable..i.e. the mounting bolt holes are the same but the frames are just different enough to need a different set of frame and bracket extensions. Correct?

Yes, correct. The winches are the same and will bolt up to either extension set up.