M998 vs DOT

[MUDSUX]

Hello everyone,

I am new here and just want to ask a few questions regarding getting an M998 registered. I asked this question over in the G503 forum but have not gotten a response. Hoping to get some help here . Here is the quote:

I just completed a Land Rover 110 restoration that I imported 3 years ago. I was able to get that truck titled and registered without having to comply with federal motor vehicle safety standards because it was older than 25 years. According to DOT, the truck is exempt because of its age. Does the same apply to humvees? I was told a few years ago that I can buy a humvee but I could never drive it on the road. Since some are now over 25 years old is this still true?

In the Land Rover community putting a new galvanized frame on is very common but guys are getting their trucks taken by custom and border patrol because people are illegally doing engine and frame swaps before importing them over. According to CBP any alteration to frame/engine makes it illegal for importation under the 25 year rule (because a new frame makes the truck younger than 25 and the vin is no longer on the chassis-considered vin tampering). Is this the case here with M998?

http://www.gsnmagazine.com/node/28926?c=border_security

Another question: I see a lot of trucks advertised for sale with and without titles. Does having a title mean I can get a license plate for it without having it inspected? Thanks in advance!

 

[rtk]

NEVER by a vehicle WITHOUT proper ownership , it depends on your state , in my current state vehicles over 25 yrs. old are considered antique and get the cheap plate . They do require a title , again in this state anything 1973 and newer is titled , prior is just a registration. As far as having the vehicle inspected it's up to DMV , they can require you to have the vehicle inspected even with a title , depends on the day as they say . Changing a frame removes the CI vin numbers on the frame , which WOULD result in a trip to Field Investigations for a new vin number for a FEE of course . I could see how somebody changing a frame could lead to problems , and possible loss of the vehicle . I can also add if you do change a frame keep ALL the documents to show DMV what you did and how you obtained the parts .

 

[MUDSUX]

Thanks for the reply. I have a lead on a 1984 M998 and it has a title already. Will it be exempt from the federal motor vehicle safety standards since it is over 25 years old? Will I be able to drive it on the street like my Defender?

 

[Scar59]

Register it as a classic/antique vehicle, also insure it that way.

 

[Augi]

Will I be able to drive it on the street like my Defender?

Everybody else does...

 

[MUDSUX]

Everybody else does...

Yes, but is it legal? I don't see why not but when I was looking 6-7 years ago for an HMMWV, I was told I would not be able to drive it on the street.

 

[rtk]

In my state a HMMWV , if over 25 yrs. old would be registered and titled as a HX vehicle , all states have different rules , check your state DMV website too start , when it comes to DMV and MV's all bets are off when they look at your paperwork and get the deer in the headlight look .

 

[jcappeljr]

I just titled my humvee in Pa. with classic tags.

 

[MUDSUX]

......Changing a frame removes the CI vin numbers on the frame , which WOULD result in a trip to Field Investigations for a new vin number for a FEE of course . I could see how somebody changing a frame could lead to problems , and possible loss of the vehicle.

I thought HMMWV frames did not have any serial numbers? I thought they were on the data plate only (sail panel on b-pillar, drivers side). At least that was what I was just told.

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

they didnt make HMMWV's in 1984.....did you mean 85?

 

[MUDSUX]

Really? Thanks, I better check. Just a quick search on the internet:
AM General was among 3 companies awarded Phase I contracts in July 1981. Those contracts provided funding for production of prototype HMMWV vehicles for the US

military​

​

to test. In March 1983, the government selected AM General to manufacture the HMMWV. During the government"s testing of the prototypes, AM General engineers made various design modifications based on performance issues raised by the government. In one of those changes, the engineers moved the headlamps inboard and eliminated the 2 outer slots of the 9-slotted grille. The HMMWV's 7-slotted grille first appeared in a blueprint completed in November 1982. This became standard for initial series HMMWVs.
The final version of the HMMWV was accepted in 1983 and AM General was awarded a $1.2 billion contract to produce 55,000 vehicles over a 5-year period (the contract would be eventually increased to $1.6 billion to produce 70,000 Humvees). On 24 July 1983, American Motors sold its AM General stock and assets to the LTV Corporation. There it bacem a fully-owned subsidiary of the LTV Aerospace and Defense Company. AM General sent production versions of the HMMWV to the military in 1984 for more testing, but did not begin shipping vehicles to the military until March 1985.


http://www.amgeneral.com/vehicles/hmmwv/background.php
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/hmmwv.htm
http://olive-drab.com/od_mvg_hmmwv_history.php

 

[kflips]

I got a 1985 hmmwv through the dmv process in va. For a over 25 years vehicle, the dmv had a list of self inspection requirements and no emissions given age and engine of vehicle. Use the gvw on the plate 10k as bumper height requirements may be lower for lighter vehicles. They only had an issue with the VIN number-- as they will have a lot of low serial numbers in the vin field for small production items. My two cents having gone through the exercise in December

 

[L1A1]

I got a 1985 hmmwv through the dmv process in va. For a over 25 years vehicle, the dmv had a list of self inspection requirements and no emissions given age and engine of vehicle. My two cents having gone through the exercise in December

Just curious did your HMMWV already have a title when you brought it? I ask because prior to 9/11 I could walk into a VaDMV with a hand written bill of sale & walk out with a new title . Post 9/11, not the case anymore. VaDMV only does title for title now (clerk at the DMV told me that). As one DMV agent told me, "the good times are coming to an end, they're closing all those loop holes".

Matt

 

[kflips]

Yes it had a title

 

[L1A1]

Thanks for the reply. I have a lead on a 1984 M998 and it has a title already. Will it be exempt from the federal motor vehicle safety standards since it is over 25 years old? Will I be able to drive it on the street like my Defender?

Wonder if it was one from that big USMC lot that was auctioned off in Atlanta, Ga sometime during the 1990s? They were titled for "off road use only". Not exactly sure what that means but one guy I knew who owned one had his tagged & drove it on the road all the time .

Matt

 

[Chief_919]

Best answer- your state is different from every other state.

Take the VIN and other info down to your local DMV and simply ask.

That will get you the correct answer. Everything else from people here is just experiences with other states, that do not apply to you, or conjecture.

There are many issues with HMMWV's. The first batch was sold with SF97's that were branded "off road use only", and people laundered them through states that did not have the ability to brand them as such to get titles without that on them.

AM General at one point sent a letter to every state DMV urging them not to license surplus HMMWV's for highway use.

There are many potential issues- and only the DMV can really give you an answer.

 

[xmiltm998]

I have normal registration and insurance on mine. I use it for on and off hwy use so I didn't want any restrictions. Im in So Cal

 

[rtk]

What is happening with title's and registration's is that a LOT of states are going to what is called a FEDERAL TITLE . Basically , what it is , is that the FEDS want ALL state titles to follow a certain format , all having the same info and security (Water Marks) . The other little issue is that ALL state titles will be tied to a Federal data base , so if LE runs a VIN they will have access to ALL the history on that vehicle no matter how many states it went through . A lot of this goes back to "title cloning" and stolen and/or Insurgence Totals . It is already done with CDL's which is basically a Federal license now even through it issued by state . Scared yet , wait , do you think homeland security would have a look at those files from time to time . Someday ask me how I know all this , LOL

 

[L1A1]

. Scared yet , wait , do you think homeland security would have a look at those files from time to time . Someday ask me how I know all this , LOL

HOW DO YOU KNOW ALL THIS?!! *



* we need a "quizacal" avatar-something with one eyebrow furrowed for such situations.....

Matt

 

[rtk]

Used to work for THEM , how about that .