Mack vs Cummins debate

[Crash_AF]

I'm looking at a pair of wreckers right now, one is a 543 with a Mack engine and a 816 with a Cummins and need some help.

I know something of the Cummins 250, but absolutely NOTHING about the Mack so I need someone who knows these engines to give me some details about them.

Some questions:
How is parts availability on the Mack (I know Cummins parts are more widely available)?

What is the cost of maintenance of the Mack compared to the Cummins?

How is the power of the Mack motor?

Anything else I should look out for or know about those engines?

Later,
Joe

 

[rdixiemiller]

The old Mack END673 has a reputation for power and reliability. So does the 250 Cummins. Assuming normal maintenance (fuel filters, oil changes, etc.), There should be very little to no difference. If you are talking about overhauling an engine, price probably won't be too different (assuming commercial parts). If you have a line on Milsurp rebuild kits, the Cummins would be cheaper. Labor would be about the same, they are basically the same general design (2 heads, mechanical inj. system, etc.). Used engines via GL? Mack is almost unheard of here, lots of Cummins. I would recommend you look at the overall condition of the truck and let that decide for you. If you just like the idea of one engine over the other, go with what makes you happy. In the final analysis, that is what really counts!

 

[beaubeau]

Mack/Cummins

I agree totally !! The best part of a Mack Truck is the Engine! Although I have seen many Macks with Detroit, Macks and Cat. engines in them. Some people are True to Mack as some people are to Hardly DDDIVIDDSON!!! Just a Name!!Choose the truck in the best of shape. Good Luck, Phil

 

[m16ty]

rdixiemiller, A Cummins has 3 heads, not 2. The fuel injection system is very different between the two. Mack uses a in-line injector pump and Cummins uses a PT pump that supplies constant pressure to the injectors that are fired off the camshaft rockers inside the head.
I've ran both in civilain trucks and they are both good engines. From what I've seen a Cummins is cheaper to work on though.

 

[joec]

But as far as durability the mack hands down. Almost he same design as the multi but the mack has oils squirters on for the pistons..Atleast last one i looked up at changing bearings doing a inframe did. Friggin rear in the way sucks..!!


I would prefer a mack. I have the multi in my 543. When it pops it is getting either a mack or a cat w/allison and a jake brake.

 

[Bolkbich]

The Mack motor pulls as good as a good running cummins. The Mack is alot more expensive to fix , parts are alot harder to find . Ive owned both and i know the cummins will take more abuse. The Mack motor is not the same as a civilian motor (thermodyne). The block is definitley different and it doesnt have fire rings at the top of the cylinders plus lots of other differences. If both trucks are nice choose the cummins , but if the mack motored truck is nicer id buy it

 

[DaveP]

But as far as durability the mack hands down. Almost he same design as the multi but the mack has oils squirters on for the pistons..Atleast last one i looked up at changing bearings doing a inframe did. Friggin rear in the way sucks..!! .


I would prefer a mack. I have the multi in my 543. When it pops it is getting either a mack or a cat w/allison and a jake brake.

i know a lot of you will not like this but if the Mack is anything like the multi, i will steer clear of them

 

[DDoyle]

ENDT-673 parts are much harder to find and more expensive than those of the Cummins - at least at this point in time.

Regards,
David

 

[joec]

But as far as durability the mack hands down. Almost he same design as the multi but the mack has oils squirters on for the pistons..Atleast last one i looked up at changing bearings doing a inframe did. Friggin rear in the way sucks..!! .


I would prefer a mack. I have the multi in my 543. When it pops it is getting either a mack or a cat w/allison and a jake brake.

i know a lot of you will not like this but if the Mack is anything like the multi, i will steer clear of them

I mean they are similar in design. But what the mack is to a multi is like comparing a Cat to a multifuel. The mack is one of the strongest running engines. You just cant kill them.
Lots of torque. Not the 3208 cat...inline 6..3116 and so on.


I would go with the civillian version Mack 237 or bigger. But as far as internals The mack has them beat hands down.

 

[Bolkbich]

A Mack civilian 237-300 Maxidyne is different. I cant remember exactly , but i think the oil pump is in a different spot on the block and you cant interchange them . The only Mack motor you can use is the military version. I put 250 hp Thermodyne pump and injectors in mine. It would pull like crazy compared to a stock military Thermodyne, but not near as good as my cummins with a turbo ,335 hp injectors and a full lock button in the pump....probably 375 hp. Plus you can run a jake on the Cummins. All the Cummins parts are plentiful, new and used. The multi -fuel doesnt compare to either motor.

 

[joec]

A Mack civilian 237-300 Maxidyne is different. I cant remember exactly , but i think the oil pump is in a different spot on the block and you cant interchange them . The only Mack motor you can use is the military version. I put 250 hp Thermodyne pump and injectors in mine. It would pull like crazy compared to a stock military Thermodyne, but not near as good as my cummins with a turbo ,335 hp injectors and a full lock button in the pump....probably 375 hp. Plus you can run a jake on the Cummins. All the Cummins parts are plentiful, new and used. The multi -fuel doesnt compare to either motor.

True but the time they were built they were ahead of there time. Not much choice back then like now. Then there's the international dt 466 that will go in. Well if the multifuel ever goes Cat/Mack/Dt466 don't know yet. I might get another multi and rebuild it to keep it origanal. Pretty cheap to rebuild. It's deffinatly no 500hp Cat but it will do. If i need a wrecker i would go and buy a 2008 Volvo 565 Cummins 3STAGE BRAKE 18spd and a NRC BODY with a crane. but none of us has 500k to kick around.

The Cummins is better then the Multifuel the Mack has more torque the the Cummins. The Cummins has more parts available to interchange with other Cummins engines.

 

[rdixiemiller]

Hmm...I didn't realize the Mack engine was different from the Civvy model. That would definately make me lean towards the Cummins.

 

[joec]

oil pan and pump Thats it. Like the old b-model macks.

 

[OSO]

I went to Mack engine school back in 1984 , Worked on inline 6 engine still have books from class . When you start to work on Macks BUY MACK parts !! There are engine parts made for Mack engines , do yourself a favor stay away from those parts . Are not the same weight as Mack parts.rods, pistons, and beware of reground cranks they need a special raduis next to the crank throws.Little things like this I learned at Mack school . Mack rear ends are pretty strong assembled with 50,000# preload on center section bearings. the trannys are pretty strong the main shaft is supported by three counter shafts to support the main shaft,they shift pretty good quite fast almost as fast as an automatic tranny . Use the clutch just to get rolling then it's all in the foot feed for shifting. I know in midwest ,MKE.ORD ,a lot of Mack trucks are used and liked by a lot of operators for severe duty. Just my

 

[BKubu]

Go with the Cummins. That Mack motor is going to be old no matter how it runs. While the Cummins design is from the 60s, many of the motors were made more recently (Cummins was building the NHC250 into the 80s I believe). Also, as David Doyle says, parts are getting hard to come by for the Mack. I've owned both and I'd take a Cummins powered 5 ton over a Mack any day. The Macks are kind of strange in my opinion. Yes, they have power, but they don't feel like it...it is hard to explain if you have not driven an M39A1 vs. an M809 series truck.

 

[joec]

The Cummins parts are still available. I called a local cummins dealer. LOL.LOL The service Manager i use to work with. He has a rebuilt 290 in the crate Turbo.!! He will sell it to me for pennys on the dollar. He told me no big rush. I told him not till after i pay the wrecker off. He said no problem. SWEET Deal...!

 

[halftrack]

Once you buy a Mack, you are then married to buying just Mack. Parts are more available for the cummins.

 

[joec]

Once you buy a Mack, you are then married to buying just Mack. Parts are more available for the cummins.

True..!

 

[joec]

Crash AF did you find a truck yet?

 

[Crash_AF]

No, I'm watching the ones in PA on GL and looking at two others outside the system but I have not pulled the trigger on one yet.

Later,
Joe