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Major Meltdown!! :(

Maxwell1815

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Lima/Ohio
:shock:!!!!! Oh yeah!!!!!!! :shock: That reminds me! The weekend before this happened, I had left the accessory switch on.....everything is making sense now. The batteries were dead. So I charged them up, and when i tried to start it, the motor would crank maybe a quarter turn. So, I figured they needed charged some more. I came back out in a few hours and tried to start it, and she cranked, ran rough for a few, and roared to life. I got out of the truck and there was oil leaking down the stack. (UMO) I was so heartbroken about the whole thing, I didn't put 2 and 2 together! Great....all of this because of my engine cutoff cable being broken. Since the fuel cut cable broke, I just pulled it from under the hood, and forgot to turn off the acc switch. auaaua I have to go...I have a few choice words to say to myself....
 

JDToumanian

Active member
1,655
14
38
Location
Phelan, CA
Wow, that sucks but we all make mistakes. I do feel better now that we know the cause..... I didn't like the thought that a chunk of cam could hit me for no reason as I walk around on my pre-trip inspections with the engine idling. You're lucky you've already got another engine, and I'd probably take the block offered and enjoy building up another engine with it.

Regards,
Jon
 
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980
24
18
Location
Dover, New Hampshire
Don't be so hard on yourself, we all make mistakes and we all learn from them. I know you don't want to hear this, but someday years in the future you and your buddies will be chuckling about this one. When I blew up my trans it was like the end of the world (i know your problem is slightly more significant). But the experience it gave me and the people I interacted with who helped me along the way (most of which are right here on this site) almost made it worth it. I now know how NOT to drive my truck, and I gained a wealth of knowledge about how it is repaired and how it operates. 2cents
 

Schvin

New member
4
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0
Location
Lima, OH
1100 rpm is not roaring, so to me it sounds like it sped up.

Or he wanted it to sound good?(theoretically speaking). We were 50 feet away, it didn't speed up. We would have heard it. We're both automotive technicians, pretty sure we would know whether or not the engine's RPM's had increased

I'm NOT saying it isn't possible, because I know it is, I'm just stating that it didn't increase. We WOULD have heard it.


^^^And now we know the cause of the failure.
 
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wsucougarx

Well-known member
6,951
67
48
Location
Washington State
Whew I'm glad we got some resolution as to what happened. Hate to have a fluke catastrophic engine failure in the back of my head. Definately a good lesson to always dry crank your engine before you fire her up. I'm sure sharing this story will help a few guys from duplicating this event.
 

JCKnife

Well-known member
1,367
46
48
Location
Kentucky
:shock:!!!!! Oh yeah!!!!!!! :shock: That reminds me! The weekend before this happened, I had left the accessory switch on.....everything is making sense now. The batteries were dead. So I charged them up, and when i tried to start it, the motor would crank maybe a quarter turn. So, I figured they needed charged some more. I came back out in a few hours and tried to start it, and she cranked, ran rough for a few, and roared to life. I got out of the truck and there was oil leaking down the stack. (UMO) I was so heartbroken about the whole thing, I didn't put 2 and 2 together! Great....all of this because of my engine cutoff cable being broken. Since the fuel cut cable broke, I just pulled it from under the hood, and forgot to turn off the acc switch. auaaua I have to go...I have a few choice words to say to myself....
I'm not following this explanation. The cutoff cable being broken caused what?
 

davey8943

Member
334
2
18
Location
Columbus IN
JCKnife.

The cutoff cable being broke allowed him to forget the accessory switch. Since the accessory switch was not turned off, the in tank fuel pump continued running (until the batteries gave out).

There must have been a fuel leak somewhere (injector?) into the cylinder. The fuel (or WMO in this case) didn't compress like air would have, and bent connecting rod.

I guess the rod didn't bend enough to start smacking into the cylinder bore and creating a HUGE racket. If it had, the noise would have been a dead give away...

In any case... Diesels (and gasolines for that matter) don't like liquid in the cylinder at ALL!

Dave
 
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dozer1

Member
833
13
18
Location
Sargeant, Minnesota
With the fuel shutoff manually pulled, how would the fuel get by that? Even if the in tank pump ran for hours? I think you guys are onto something but until the parts can be examined a 100% accurate diagnosis probably wont be made. Just theories.2cents
 

davey8943

Member
334
2
18
Location
Columbus IN
maybe I'm starting to reach here, but ...

" a leak past the fuel shut off"

or

Maybe he pushed the shut off back in once the engine died, so he wouldn't have to reach under the hood to open it back up?

just thoughts...

2cents

Dave
 

dozer1

Member
833
13
18
Location
Sargeant, Minnesota
Good theories to look at. Also a possible leaky head gasket that let coolant in a cyl. It would all look like black crappy oil coming out the pipe in a diesel
 

rchalmers3

Half a mile from the Broad River
Steel Soldiers Supporter
1,925
30
48
Location
Irmo, South Carolina
Maxwell, thank you for sharing your loss and troubles, you have uncovered a discussion about using the fuel shut off that I have never considered. Your loss may save scores of other engines.

And may I be the first to point out my 1st page post claiming my experience of cam pieces flying out of the block was due to a rod failure....

No applause please. I am much too modest...

Rick
 

dozer1

Member
833
13
18
Location
Sargeant, Minnesota
Maxwell, thank you for sharing your loss and troubles, you have uncovered a discussion about using the fuel shut off that I have never considered. Your loss may save scores of other engines.

And may I be the first to point out my 1st page post claiming my experience of cam pieces flying out of the block was due to a rod failure....

No applause please. I am much too modest...

Rick
LOL, good job, good job! That is a good point about uncovering the "dry cranking" procedure. Would a guy pull his head and investigate if it didnt crank over easy the first time anyway? I will be the first to admit that I would prob. put the charger on it and give it a whirl later.
 
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No.2Diesel

New member
1,264
11
0
Location
Huntington, NY
"Government Rebuilds"

Hi,

Sorry to hear about your engine failure. I'm not here to chastize you and I'm sure you would have noticed a "run-away" situation. It'll be a great learning experience in the long run. Before you go and rent a cheesy Bobcat skidsteer please remember that a Multifuel weighs approx. 1,750lbs. without the tranny. Just make sure you research the lift and tipping loads of the machine your going to rent...

I noticed in your pics that there is an "engine rebuild" tag affixed to your block. That got my attention... Observation: Someone please correct me but I have observed over these past years on this forum that every catastrophic engine failure that has been shown was from an engine that had a "low mileage government rebuild" and this is yet another example.

Rebuild tags and nice new paint jobs scare me on any driveline component. I have an original unmolested Multifuel in my Deuce that is "high-mileage" to many Deuce owners and I have no problems and I'm happy with that. In comparison many crow "caw...caw..." :eek: about their extremely low mileage "rebuilds" and those are the Multifuels that seem to be having all of the catatstrophic failures. I purchased my Deuce in 06' with 42K miles and now have 58K miles on it with no issue.

I have a theory that:

A.) Parts that are normally replaced during any engine rebuild were re-used. ($$$)

B.) Certain practices were not followed that would be common sense othwerwise. ($$$)

C.) Engines, etc. may have been sent out to private sub-contractors that cut corners due to being awarded a low bid that they themselves submitted. ($$$)

In otherwords - due to certain constraints personnel don't/can't spend the $$$ to do it "right."

The following "2nd or 3rd party hear-say" story may be comparing apples to oranges when it comes to engine types but seems to fit in perfectly with the relationship of engine failure and "government rebuilds." While researching info on my 6V53 Detroit in my Gig I came across this interesting little ditty. This gentleman was going through his 6V53 having a past life powering an M551 Sheridan tank and learned a few things along the way. To paraphraze:

"I tell you this story, because I feel that it is important, and rather unheard of to many Detroit enthusiasts.
I met a Detroit Diesel seller in California who used to repair on the order of 7-8 Detroit diesels a week for the military for the best part of 33 years.
He told me that the military would contract certified Detroit Diesel distributors for rebuilds every time equipment racked up a few hundred hours or a thousand miles, depending on the engine's use.
The next part shocked me, which I felt like sharing.
The military would ship these engines out to the service station with a bill of work. The engines would then be analyzed to see there condition. Work/repairs would ensue and the military would be sent a cost to fix the engine. This seller stated that more times than not, out of the over 800 Detroit Diesels which his company has rebuilt over the years for the military, the military refused to pay as much as the rebuilder charged. He said that when the military was tight on funds, the rebuilder would get hit with a loss, which they transferred over by either returning the engine back to its entry state, or the rebuilder would use lesser grade parts so that the engines could be put back into use with the given money by the military. What ends up being the worst part is, when the military refuses to pay an engine can be slapped on a rebuilt stamp which tells that the engine was rebuilt, then when funds cut out, the engine is not given back as a rebuilt, it is given back in the same form....


...The biggest killer he has found in his years of service is a seized fuel pump.
When the fuel pump momentarily seizes, it will snap the fuel pump drive coupler into pieces. When this happens, the metal will eat up the gear train. I was told this could happen while the engine was running, and a problem would not be noticed until the engine was to be restarted. The best part is yet to come. He said that on every military engine after his first few years of rebuilding them, they would first check the fuel pump to see if that was a problematic source. When necessary, the fuel pump drive piece was replaced since it was only a $5 part. The engine was then tested and if it worked it was sent back out into service without checking the rest of the engine for problems...


...This engine has proven to me that either the military rebuilders checked this one on a bad day, or they slapped a rebuilt tag onto the intake housing for kicks.
There has simply been too many broken/bad parts on this engine for it to pass in any good machine shop.
However there are points along the way which hint to a rebuild occurring.
Yes the crankcase gears were bad and loose metal was found in the oil pan, but how can that be possible if the liners and pistons are in such a shape that they appear to be new."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't know if Multifuels were rebuilt using sub-contractors etc. More information is required to come to a conclusion. Are there any Vets on this forum with direct service experience in the field of Depot rebuild practices/conditions?
Good luck on the engine swap, [thumbzup] please post some more pics of the progress!
 

DieselBob

Active member
2,891
15
38
Location
Arnold Maryland
I noticed in your pics that there is an "engine rebuild" tag affixed to your block. That got my attention... Observation: Someone please correct me but I have observed over these past years on this forum that every catastrophic engine failure that has been shown was from an engine that had a "low mileage government rebuild" and this is yet another example.
Oh just what I needed to hear. Here's mine :roll:. And to top it off I have a 4 finger pressure plate that seems to be the kind that like to break the finger pivot point.
 

Attachments

Stretch44875

Super Jr. Moderator
Super Moderator
Steel Soldiers Supporter
2,960
30
48
Location
Tiro, Ohio
Hehe... I have a new, not rebuilt, 93 motor in the M108. M35 has a 86 engine, not rebuilt.

I'm of the opionon the rebuilt motors are a crapshoot. Figure most are okay, but I'm sure a lot were not rebuilt properly.

Sorry to hear about the blow up. I'm over towards mansfield, let me know if you need anything.
 

davey8943

Member
334
2
18
Location
Columbus IN
...
I'm of the opionon the rebuilt motors are a crapshoot. Figure most are okay, but I'm sure a lot were not rebuilt properly.
:ditto:

A rebuild is only as good as the mechanic / technician doing the rebuild.

Please don't think I am calling all army mechanics bad, but I have to believe that there is some percentage of them that are forgetful, apathetic, or lazy. Likely a smaller percentage than in the civilian population, but some percentage nonetheless.

My brother's M1009 transmission had a ~1995 (?) depot rebuild tag on it. He had put less than 500 miles on it before he lost all forward and reverse gears. After pulling the pan and removing a hand full of metal shavings ( :shock: ), he decided to take it to his local transmission guy. The rebuilder he took it too mentioned that one reverse clutch had been swapped with a third gear clutch! :roll:

I have little experience with internal transmission works, but that doesn't sound right!

Dave
 
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