Manifold Heater Problems

[peashooter]

here is a picture of the difference of the 2. The old style is actually the Hex shaped one. It is just a nozzle and not actually a valve like the other one in the picture. If you have the painted style one in this picture, that is the NEW one and that is what your replacement one will need to look like or else the nozzle will be constantly spraying fuel as long as your in tank pump is on.

(I learned this all because I also bought the wrong one and thought I was getting a New improved style)

 

[Commander5993]

Ok, who would like to share the 'secret' of how the manifold 'injector' nozzle comes apart??

I received the correct original type replacement from Memphis Equipment yesterday. It looked all nice and had a new coat of paint. They told me on the phone that they disassemble, clean, reassemble, and test all the 'take off part' manifold heater injector/nozzles.

However I was getting ready to put it on today, and wanted to remove the two brass adapters before I tried to screw it into the intake. But I ended up having to use kroil oil to get them out. After I did get the out, I could see what looked like hair and other crud on top the little sponge filters.

So I decided to remove the nozzle tip, and the short screen filter was dirty also.

So to say the least, at this point, I am really disappointed in Memphis Equipment. This unit has not been cleaned at all. And there is no way I'm going to install it with out taking it completely apart and thoroughly cleaning.


Here is where I need some help:
I took out the snap ring that holds the cap (plunger?) in. But after removing the snap ring, the plunger will not come out. I took some more kroil oil and let it sit there. I can tap it lightly and the oil seeps down inside, but the cap/plunger still won't come out. What do I do??

I don't want to destroy another injector-nozzle, like I did to the old one. (see post #31 above if you want to know how)

Any help would be much appreciated

 

[Commander5993]

Ok, I figured it out. Here is what I did: (sorry no pics)

After removing the brass Injector-Nozzle tip, and the parts that comes out with it.

*I took two brass plugs and screwed them into the holes where the fuel lines normally go.

*Then I took the air compressor 'blow gun' and using brass fittings and adapters, I screwed the gun to the manifold injector body, connecting it to the end where the brass nozzle was.

Then once it was connected to my air gun, I sit the 'cap' end of the injector (the end that had the snap ring which I had already removed) down onto my workbench. Holding it at an angle, just enough so when the cap pops out, it would hit the workbench and stop, so as not to 'shoot' it out and lose everything.

I had to pull the trigger on my air compressor gun several times, but finally it "popped" I then took a pair of pliers and carefully pulled the cap out. Then finished disassembly.


Hopefully that might help someone else, so they don't have to beat it with a hammer, and ruin it like I did in post #31

I'm really glad I got this 'replacement' apart, as it was pretty dirty. It definitely needs cleaned. I have to go to town and get some carb cleaner or brake cleaner (the safe for plastics kind) and I'll finish cleaning it in the morning, and reassembly everything. Hopefully when I get it installed on the deuce, the manifold heater will finally function.

Thanks All!

 

[Commander5993]

Well, it still doesn't work...

Hear the pump, but don't hear ignition, or any change in the sound of the engine.

If its still not spraying fuel through the nozzle, I just don't know what the problem is.
I'm going to take the nozzle back off, place it in a jar, and see what's its doing.

 

[peashooter]

Well, it still doesn't work...

Hear the pump, but don't hear ignition, or any change in the sound of the engine.

If its still not spraying fuel through the nozzle, I just don't know what the problem is.
I'm going to take the nozzle back off, place it in a jar, and see what's its doing.

I have the same problem, I also replaced the nozzle earlier this summer and verified that works correctly. I'm not getting any flame thrower action yet either though so I guess that just leaves the spark plug/coil/wiring as the only other culprits for us right?

 

[Commander5993]

I have the same problem, I also replaced the nozzle earlier this summer and verified that works correctly. I'm not getting any flame thrower action yet either though so I guess that just leaves the spark plug/coil/wiring as the only other culprits for us right?

Take our your plug and lay it up on your air filter housing. Then have someone flip the switch for you and see it you get a nice bright continuous spark. Also a good time to clean your plug, if it's needed.


I tested mine a week or so ago, and had a good strong spark.


After figuring out an assembly problem, I also took the injector nozzle, hooked it back up to the fuel lines, pointed it into a jar. Had my dad flip the manifold heater switch inside the truck. It took a few seconds (5-10) to prime the fuel line, but then the injector nozzle sprayed a nice atomized "cone" of fuel.


However, after re-installing everything, the manifold heater still does not seem to be igniting, and I don't know why.


Has anyone else ran into this problem, where both injector and plug seem to be functioning correctly, and yet it still doesn't fire? Anyone have any other ideas?

 

[orren]

Are you using an alternate fuel such as recycled engine oil or WVO? This device
doesn't seem to work too well on these fuels so I am building a special tank for
a good starting fuel such as 90% diesel and 10% gasoline.

Good luck,

Orren

Take our your plug and lay it up on your air filter housing. Then have someone flip the switch for you and see it you get a nice bright continuous spark. Also a good time to clean your plug, if it's needed.


I tested mine a week or so ago, and had a good strong spark.


After figuring out an assembly problem, I also took the injector nozzle, hooked it back up to the fuel lines, pointed it into a jar. Had my dad flip the manifold heater switch inside the truck. It took a few seconds (5-10) to prime the fuel line, but then the injector nozzle sprayed a nice atomized "cone" of fuel.


However, after re-installing everything, the manifold heater still does not seem to be igniting, and I don't know why.


Has anyone else ran into this problem, where both injector and plug seem to be functioning correctly, and yet it still doesn't fire? Anyone have any other ideas?

 

[Commander5993]

Are you using an alternate fuel such as recycled engine oil or WVO? This device
doesn't seem to work too well on these fuels so I am building a special tank for
a good starting fuel such as 90% diesel and 10% gasoline.

Good luck,

Orren

Nope, no mixed fuels. Just straight clean diesel since I got the truck, that's been about 1500 miles worth in about one years time. (would have been more, but it sat for 6-7 months while we did a lot of work, maintenance, and updates/upgrades). All filters have been changed as well.

The fuel thats in the tank isn't that old though.

Come to think of it, there might be some Lucus-Oil fuel system cleaner in there. Wouldn't think that would affect it though, would it?

 

[AceHigh]

You have already spent enough time and money to have put on an ether system. Just sayin.

After all, that is what the Army did after fussing with the manifold heaters for years.

 

[Flyingvan911]

I just give my deuce a half second shot of starting fluid in the mushroom then crank it. The fumes are enough to get the diesel burning until the cylinders warm up enough to keep things going. (Which is just a few seconds.)

 

[Commander5993]

Ether...
no thanks, just don't like using ether.
------------------

The deuce starts fine, but I'm getting ready to move and the region has some colder winters. So I just want to get the manifold heater working, just in case I need it.

Just have to figure out why:
fuel + spark = no flame...?

 

[Commander5993]

Ok, just pulled the spark plug again, and it was soaked with fuel. I laid it up on the air filter, and tested it again. It fired a nice bright continuous spark just like last time.

So the injector-nozzle is has nice atomized cone shape fuel spray. And I have strong spark, but still don't have fire...

Could it be the plug gap??
---------
Edit:
I just found on another thread that plug gap should be 0.1
Going to go check this now.

 

[cattlerepairman]

I think spark plug gap also. There is no other logical reason why finely dispersed carbon fuel would not ignite. Having said that, I have fussed with flame heaters on various models (mostly fire trucks and Steyr Diesels) I second the notion to go with the times and move to the ether dosing systems. They have little in common with the "spray into the intake mushroom" technique. The small amount of metered ether does its job very well and will not harm the engine.
My conclusion is that the manifold heater allows you to cold-start with your own on-board "starting fluid" but the intricacy of the parts involved results in less-than-acceptable reliability and performance.

 

[LowTech]

I just give my deuce a half second shot of starting fluid in the mushroom then crank it. The fumes are enough to get the diesel burning until the cylinders warm up enough to keep things going. (Which is just a few seconds.)

This has just recently been discussed and it's been stated that "spray, and then crank" is BAD! You can suck all (or too much) ether into 1 cylinder. Spraying while cranking helps disperse it to all cylinders.
Been doing that same thing 8-0

 

[Commander5993]

Plug gap was about .085 or so, I took it up to .100
But after re-installing it, no change, the manifold heater still doesn't ignite.

Back to square one I guess...

 

[Commander5993]

I think spark plug gap also. There is no other logical reason why finely dispersed carbon fuel would not ignite. Having said that, I have fussed with flame heaters on various models (mostly fire trucks and Steyr Diesels) I second the notion to go with the times and move to the ether dosing systems. They have little in common with the "spray into the intake mushroom" technique. The small amount of metered ether does its job very well and will not harm the engine.
My conclusion is that the manifold heater allows you to cold-start with your own on-board "starting fluid" but the intricacy of the parts involved results in less-than-acceptable reliability and performance.

Well, as bad as I hate to, I might have to go with an ether system. I really hate to, but I just don't know what else to do.

I need to have this working, as I'm going to be driving this truck through montana soon. And with winter temps in the rockies, I think the deuce will have to have some type of cold start help.

----
And yes, you would think that fuel+spark= fire. But apparently not...

 

[Commander5993]

OK, I give up on the manifold heater...
As bad a I hate to do it,
What is the best Ether System to get for the deuce?

 

[Commander5993]

I found a few threads here that referred to "Quick-Start" brand/company. However, when I 'googled' it and found their website, it errors out and the site does not load. Don't know if its just a problem with their website, or if the company went out of business, or...?

Anyway, I did find a company called KBi, and the ether system I think would work is $149. I emailed them to ask about specifics, and which system they recommended for the deuces LDT inline 6 cylinder 465 engine.

Here a link to the manual system I found, seems to be what would work, anyone have an opinion or experience with this system?

[url]http://tinyurl.com/clnznzq
[/URL]http://tinyurl.com/a4ac5v5

 

[AceHigh]

I bought a Kats off ebay. I compared it to the system on my other deuce and it seemed to be exact. It was real easy. I took the wire from the manifold system and used it to power the ether system. I bought 2 little brass plugs for the old manifold injector, I left the spark plug in as it was. It came with a few injector tips so I picked the proper one and installed it.

I had to make up a small fuel line to get rid of the tee and also had to get a brass plug for the pump. Hope any of this helps you.

Here is a video someone posted on the conversion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8kBRpl32a0

 

[AceHigh]

I found the kit I bought, 24 volt and all.

http://www.amazon.com/Kats-34100-Bu...TF8&qid=1353287532&sr=8-3&keywords=kats+ether

$60 bucks. Good luck I hope this helps.