Mep-002a fuel shutoff solenoid/manual shutdown?

[Mudwisr2]

New to the forum and want to say thank you for the wealth of knowledge that’s here. I just picked up an 002a and an 803a as a package deal. 002 is priority now and the 803 will be a later project.
The 002 is missing the fuel shutoff solenoid. Is there a way to shut down the generator manually besides blocking off the intake? I want to run it and test for power output before I try to track down and order the missing part if possible.

 

[Ray70]

Yes, just push down on the linkage at the IP.
That's all the solenoid does.....
Just keep in mind that the solenoid also shuts the machine down in the event you loose oil pressure or overheat, so without the solenoid those 2 safeties are being bypassed, so keep an eye on it!

 

[Mudwisr2]

Yes, just push down on the linkage at the IP.
That's all the solenoid does.....
Just keep in mind that the solenoid also shuts the machine down in the event you loose oil pressure or overheat, so without the solenoid those 2 safeties are being bypassed, so keep an eye on it!

Thank you and much appreciated. The oil pressure gauge is stuck at 10 psi so not operable. I don’t know if I can take it off and free it up but will need to track down an oil gauge as well.

 

[Ray70]

NOS oil gages were available on ebay not long ago.
It is possible that yours will work once you start it. Just because it isn't currently at zero doesn't mean it's totally frozen.

 

[Mudwisr2]

NOS oil gages were available on ebay not long ago.
It is possible that yours will work once you start it. Just because it isn't currently at zero doesn't mean it's totally frozen.

Great. Thank you

 

[rickf]

Doesn't the shut down relay open with power and shut down when power is cut off? If that is the case and he has no relay at all how will he start it?

 

[Chainbreaker]

Thank you and much appreciated. The oil pressure gauge is stuck at 10 psi so not operable. I don’t know if I can take it off and free it up but will need to track down an oil gauge as well.

If you haven't already... go to the Top of this page and select "TM" to find the MEP-002a TM's to download. In the "-24 Parts Manual" you should be able to find the OEM Oil Pressure Gauge Spec's and OEM P/N. If you can't locate an OEM Gauge you should be able to do a search using that criteria to find non-OEM Gauge/Sender that will work just fine as long as it meets spec.

However, that gauge might still work OK once you get unit running & oil heats up if it has good oil.

 

[Chainbreaker]

Doesn't the shut down relay open with power and shut down when power is cut off? If that is the case and he has no relay at all how will he start it?

As I read it, he is just missing the actual "Governor Solenoid" and his electronics is all there including relays etc. So, by hitting start & having a 3rd hand to work the IP Linkage it should start as long as his Oil Pressure switch and Temp Shutdown switches are functioning OK.

Edit: Looking at the Schematic, K5 the "Governor Solenoid" is independent of the 2 Safety Circuits: S4 (Temp Switch) & S5 (Oil Pressure Switch) they just kill the power to Governor lift solenoid. So with the Governor lift solenoid missing he has to provide the lifting manually to test if engine runs until he can determine if he wants to move forward with locating a replacement lift solenoid. Note: Edited to reflect Ray's comments in Post #10 below!

However, as Ray points out in Post #2 above... those 2 safeties rely on the K5 Governor Solenoid to kill the engine (stop fuel flow) if there is a low oil pressure issue or over temp issue.

 

[robertsears1]

If you have never run MEP gensets, they start differently than anything I have ever run. Without that solenoid, this advice will not apply but will when you get one installed. Once a normal 002 or 003 starts, you must hold the switch in start until the field is flashed and the oil safety is satisfied. My 003 takes about 11 seconds, otherwise it will shut down. It will not hurt holding the switch in start if things are adjusted correctly. If you hear grinding, obviously let go of the start switch . Under the flip up lid over the controls are the starting instructions. You should also see white puffs out of the exhaust within a few seconds of cranking or it is not getting fuel. You should search “stuck plunger in the injector pump” if it has set for a long period because you can break it Since the fuel can gum things up. I didn’t know any better and got lucky on mine. Throttle body and carb cleaner spray melts the fuel residue nicely, also in the fuel pumps if they are not clicking fast enough. It would be good to detail what you are doing to prepare these sets for cranking before you hit the start switch. There is lots of knowledge available to you to take away most of the frustration. Lastly, DO NOT idle these gensets. Set the speed to show 60 hz and then don’t touch the throttle.

 

[Ray70]

Actually the way it works is the governor solenoid is only there to KILL the IP, not to turn it on.
Without the solenoid in place and with the engine off the fuel flow will be wide open.
When the engine starts the governor will bring the fuel flow down in accordance with where the throttle lever is set.
The governor solenoid is spring loaded and when not energized it pushes down on the IP linkage killing fuel flow.
When power is applied the solenoid pulls up and out of the way, it is not physically connected to the linkage at all.
With the solenoid out of the way the governor spring lifts the linkage allowing the motor to start.
If a fault occurs the power to the solenoid is cut off and the internal solenoid spring pushes the plunger out and that presses down on the IP linkage shuttion off fuel flow.
This is why the rod coming off the IP has an internal tension spring, so that the solenoid can push down ( extending the linkage ) and kill the fuel while the governor is still trying to lift the linkage up and keep the engine running.
He won't have to do anything to start it, but he will have to manually push down on the linkage to shut it off.

 

[Tinstar]

For visual reference

 

[Mudwisr2]

If you haven't already... go to the Top of this page and select "TM" to find the MEP-002a TM's to download. In the "-24 Parts Manual" you should be able to find the OEM Oil Pressure Gauge Spec's and OEM P/N. If you can't locate an OEM Gauge you should be able to do a search using that criteria to find non-OEM Gauge/Sender that will work just fine as long as it meets spec.

However, that gauge might still work OK once you get unit running & oil heats up if it has good oil.

You were right on the gauge. I took it off as well as the oil line going to it and blew everything out and after fiddling with the gauge it’s working. Now the line is leaking oil like a champ just below the connection at the gauge. I’ll get a new one made up.

 

[Mudwisr2]

What’s the most effective way to check the actual rpm’s on these? I’ve don’t it on small engines but not something like this

 

[rickf]

Same as the smaller engines. Get one of those light actuated tachometers that use a stick on reflective piece that you put on any rotating part (That is on the crankshaft like the crank pully or balancer) and then hold the light from the unit on it and it will give rpm. You will need access to the fan or maybe you can get a sticker on the generator stator.

https://www.amazon.com/Ehdis-Digital-Tachometer-Non-Contact-Reflective/dp/B0765XP9LS/ref=sr_1_5?hvadid=409936178601&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9003783&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=8989111726317007575&hvtargid=kwd-28364918164&hydadcr=24628_11409971&keywords=reflective+tape+tachometer&qid=1697894151&sr=8-5

 

[Mudwisr2]

Same as the smaller engines. Get one of those light actuated tachometers that use a stick on reflective piece that you put on any rotating part (That is on the crankshaft like the crank pully or balancer) and then hold the light from the unit on it and it will give rpm. You will need access to the fan or maybe you can get a sticker on the generator stator.

https://www.amazon.com/Ehdis-Digital-Tachometer-Non-Contact-Reflective/dp/B0765XP9LS/ref=sr_1_5?hvadid=409936178601&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9003783&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=8989111726317007575&hvtargid=kwd-28364918164&hydadcr=24628_11409971&keywords=reflective+tape+tachometer&qid=1697894151&sr=8-5

Thank you rick

 

[Chainbreaker]

What’s the most effective way to check the actual rpm’s on these? I’ve don’t it on small engines but not something like this

Also, if you're running and producing steady 60 Hz output (displayed via a known reliable Panel Hz Gauge, Kill-a-Watt meter, Multimeter, etc.) that would indicate you are running at 1800 RPM or very close to it.

What is it you are trying to accomplish measuring RPM's? Verify Hz Gauge accuracy, Governor setting, or?

 

[Guyfang]

You can remove this screen, put the reflective tape on one of the main gen vanes and shoot through the screen. But Chainbreakers way is the most simple way to do it.

 

[Mudwisr2]

Also, if you're running and producing steady 60 Hz output (displayed via a known reliable Panel Hz Gauge, Kill-a-Watt meter, Multimeter, etc.) that would indicate you are running at 1800 RPM or very close to it.

What is it you are trying to accomplish measuring RPM's? Verify Hz Gauge accuracy, Governor setting, or?

Man, honestly it’s curiosity. I know it’s an 1800 rpm piece of equipment that I’m completely new to and it’s loud and that’s got something to do with it. I did see today that the rev set screw still had the wire thru it and tag intact. I overthink things sometimes but some of it is curiosity and fascination with the tech of ole.

 

[Chainbreaker]

Man, honestly it’s curiosity. I know it’s an 1800 rpm piece of equipment that I’m completely new to and it’s loud and that’s got something to do with it. I did see today that the rev set screw still had the wire thru it and tag intact. I overthink things sometimes but some of it is curiosity and fascination with the tech of ole.

I think that any curiosity with watching RPM's might get a bit boring after a while... it does a great job at maintaining RPM's if everything is up to snuff & adjusted properly & operated within its rated limits.

If RPM's do drop significantly... its typically because its being overloaded beyond its rated capabilities and you will audibly pick up on the engine pitch que's before you could grab a meter to verify what you are hearing. However, I understand the curiosity of a "new to you" machine.

Years ago, during our first extended outage with my new to me MEP-002a I was a nervous cat... running out to the generator every time I heard an engine pitch change... with well pump kicking on, freezer & fridge compressors coming on, etc. Soon I learned the governor was doing a good job of holding hertz as the engine grunted a bit as it was being loaded & fed more fuel. Just the sweet sounds of a working generator!

 

[Mudwisr2]

I think that any curiosity with watching RPM's might get a bit boring after a while... it does a great job at maintaining RPM's if everything is up to snuff & adjusted properly & operated within its rated limits.

If RPM's do drop significantly... its typically because its being overloaded beyond its rated capabilities and you will audibly pick up on the engine pitch que's before you could grab a meter to verify what you are hearing. However, I understand the curiosity of a "new to you" machine.

Years ago, during our first extended outage with my new to me MEP-002a I was a nervous cat... running out to the generator every time I heard an engine pitch change... with well pump kicking on, freezer & fridge compressors coming on, etc. Soon I learned the governor was doing a good job of holding hertz as the engine grunted a bit as it was being loaded & fed more fuel. Just the sweet sounds of a working generator!

Good point and I agree. It’s really more of a “want to check it” kind of thing since I haven’t heard one run in person before. The wire with the metal tag is still on the threaded rod for the max speed control and it doesn’t look like it’s been fiddled with before so I guess I can assume it’s going to do what it’s supposed to.