Mep 003a fuel pump connectors

[rickf]

Would that be the same hose as used on high performance cars with AN fittings? If so they have bulk hose and replaceable ends from Summit racing.

Here are some of the fittings but I got lost in the search menu. The stuff is there if you can find it.

AN & NPT Fittings & Adapters, Fuel Line Fittings, Hose Couplers & more | Summit Racing

Whether you are plumbing brakes, fuel, vacuum, oil or nitrous systems, Summit Racing has the necessary fittings and adapters to help. We have a huge selection for AN or NPT fittings, fuel line and hose fittings, along with adapters and reducers to go from one to another.

www.summitracing.com

 

[Ray70]

Yes, -AN fittings from Summit are a definite option, but I have used them on race cars before and it is really difficult, time consuming and expensive to use.
Each pre-made hydraulic hose assembly will cost less than just 1 reusable -AN fitting.

There are also several old threads on here where guys used push-in fittings with bulk hose.
That seemed like a reasonable option as far as price, if I recall.

Here is 1 of the links

MEP-002 Fuel Line Replacement/Upgrade

So I finally have my unit running well and noticed a leak in the hose going to the IP. I looked to see if there was somewhere I could buy one but no luck. I heard a hydraulic shop may be able to make one for ya but it was Sunday and God did not bless me with patience. Here is my workaround...

www.steelsoldiers.com

Just remember, OEM stuff is a 37* fitting ( -AN and JIC ) NOT 45* SAE flare fittings.
45* SAE may still seal, but they are not the right angle to mate up with the original fittings.

 

[Brother Hec]

I also discovered that the fitting ends are call JIC fitting as stated above. I found them at an industrial welding/hardware supply house. As stated….VERY EXPENSIVE.

Another question… where on this forum is there information on how to bleed air out of fuel system. I have pump operable now and confirmed fuel flow/pressure at all filters. I did not disconnect line entering injection pump. I think I have system full of air because when I turn motor over…. I do NOT get any black smoke out of exhaust. I am assuming no fuel. How do I bleed injection pump and test that it is getting fuel? If I disconnect metal lines leading to cylinders (individually) will I cause more of a problem?

 

[rickf]

Couple of ways to do this. You can open the drains on each filter along the line and close them as you get fuel and that will fill all the filters. That is the majority of your fuel and then you can either loosen the line at the pump or just leave it in the prime setting and let the pumps run and take the cap off of the fuel tank and listen for fuel to start dribbling in from the fuel return. Once you get fuel return the pump and the injectors are bled. If you can't hear it running back into the tank, (deaf like me) then pull the return line off the tank and put it in a can and watch it for flow. If you still do not get any smoke or fuel vapor out of the exhaust even though you have fuel flow from the return then you have a pump issue. Time to talk to Ray.

 

[Guyfang]

If you need to know the exactly how long a hose piece is supposed to be, its in the 24-P

 

[Ray70]

As a price reference point, a custom made hydraulic hose with the 5/16 JIC ends you need would be $19 each. ( $10 assembly fee and $9 for the fittings and hose )
The hose is cheap, $1.68 per foot, fittings are $3.49 so the length of the hose makes very little difference in cost, it's the assembly fee.

As Rick said, you can just run the pumps and it will push the air back to the tank. Once you get flow back to the tank, crack both lines at the injectors and crank it. If you don't get small amounts of fuel spurting from around the line nut after a short period of time, you may have an IP problem, assuming the fuel solenoid is pulling up and the throttle lever on the IP is moving up as well??

If you manually lift up on the shut off plunger, the IP linkage should be very easy to move by hand right at the lever on the side of the IP. if it is stuck or binding, that also indicates internal pump issues.

The problem is that seeing that your fuel pumps were gummed up and frozen, if the IP was also gummed up and you cranked it over, you may have either broken the Plunger guide ( Ambac pump ) or possibly broken the plunger itself ( PSU pump ). If that happened the Ambac pump can be removed and repaired, but on a PSU a broken plunger can not be repaired or replaced. The pump usually needs to be replaced in that case. ( Fingers crossed that isn't your issue )

 

[massey]

I finally finished replacing all the hoses on my MEP-002A today. Here are some pictures of how I did the filter to injection pump ( which I forgot to add from my MEP-003A post) . I installed the oneway check valve on the secondary filter outlet. Then ran an almost straight hose to the injection pump. The MEP-003A has a straight fitting coming out of the pump while the MEP-002A has a 45 degree fitting for clearance issues. Now if I ever need to replace a hose all I will need is the hose (very cheap) and a ferrule (also very cheap) . I have a lot of spares .



This post is from Rusty Stud. I also replaced all my hoses with air brake hose about 8-9 years ago and it's holding up fine.

 

[Guyfang]

The army puts serrated washers on the fuel pump mounting bolts, to ensure GOOD grounding. Lots of folks feel its not needed. I kept a box of 100 each washers, and replaced, or installed them when ever I saw them missing, and I had time to do it.

 

[Brother Hec]

I agree with use of serrated washers to ground pumps.

Talking about pumps…. I followed advice for bleeding lines/filters and then I disconnected hose at injection pump(IP). I confirmed I had pressure and fuel. I checked what appeared to be solenoid linkage next to IP and it moved freely up/down. I then pulled throttle out about 3/4 inch from pushed in position. I let fuel pump prime system and gave filter a shot of starter fluid. Motor cranked but did not start….but this time I got black and then white smoke. I made a few more efforts with same smoke but no start. On last attempt, I did get motor to sputter for about 20-30 seconds before it died. Battery went weak so I am charging it again before attempting another start.

I am happy with results but would like comments/advice on what I can do to start this puppy. I only gave it one shot of starter fluid for each attempt. Can I give it more while it starts???

 

[Guyfang]

Use that crap at your own risk. It flat out is not good for these engines.



When you crack the fuel line to the IP here, right at the IP, turn on the E2 and E§, do you get fuel out?
If yes, and the engine will not start, (And sometimes you have to do this a while) then read how to time the IP and send it to Ray.

 

[robertsears1]

I scanned this thread and saw in post #46 that you have run this set some. DO NOT EVER idle this genset, you will ruin it. Once you get it adjusted for 60 hz, leave it alone and just switch the set off without touching the throttle. I did not understand this at first on mine but my luck exceeded my stupidity that time. My 003 has 1 7/8” of throttle pulled out, that should get you in the ballpark. My set is very cold natured and almost always needs about 20-30” of preheat. As you probably learned from your earlier runs, you must hold the switch in start several seconds after it fires up. Mine seems to to like about 15” after it is running. If you do not see white puffs of smoke from the exhaust after about 5-10” of cranking, it is not getting fuel. As mentioned in post #86, make sure the fuel shutoff is being pulled up by the solenoid when cranking. It is at the end of the pen in the picture. My unit will every so often not pull it up enough if it gets sticky so lubrication is important. You have to lift the cover on the right side to really see it but make sure it gets latched down for proper cooling. Do not use starter fluid on these sets.

 

[rickf]

Starter fluid and glow plugs equals blown head gaskets or worse! I have seen heads blown completely off of pickup trucks doing that, Literally blown off the top of the engine! THAT is a lot of force, and just from the ether being ignited by the glow plugs inside the engine. I never use ether anywhere, I will use WD-40 as starter fluid. Not as explosive but still flammable plus it has lubrication. But never with glow plugs.

 

[Ray70]

Get your batteries charged up and try again.
As a test, from a cold start, hit the glow plugs for 30 seconds and then feel the intake where the pre-heaters are to be sure it feels warm.
Then try feeling the glow plugs as well, to be sure that system is working.
If so, warm them again and try to start again ( no starting fluid )
It's possible you still have some air in the injector lines.
If it sputters and smokes but still won't start there is a possibility that the plunger guide in the IP is still in tact but has skipped 90* or 180* on the plunger, effectively throwing your pump timing off by 90 or 180* as well.

 

[glcaines]

As others have said never use starter fluid. Starter fluid can easily damage the engine and is absolutely never needed. If everything is correct, the MEP003A will start up very easily, even in cold weather. If it won't start, don't keep cranking as you are only torturing your starter. Make absolutely certain that the linkage outside the IP is not hanging up and shutting off the fuel as this can be a very common problem. It is also very important to have decent batteries that will spin the engine fast. I use two Odyssey Red Tops and keep Noco chargers on both batteries 100% of the time when not running the genset.

 

[Kahles56]

As others have said never use starter fluid. Starter fluid can easily damage the engine and is absolutely never needed. If everything is correct, the MEP003A will start up very easily, even in cold weather. If it won't start, don't keep cranking as you are only torturing your starter. Make absolutely certain that the linkage outside the IP is not hanging up and shutting off the fuel as this can be a very common problem. It is also very important to have decent batteries that will spin the engine fast. I use two Odyssey Red Tops and keep Noco chargers on both batteries 100% of the time when not running the genset.

I know that you were replacing hoses, do not know if you have accomplished it as yet,

I used fuel line from NAPA suitable for diesel fuel.
I undid my ends and cleaned the fittings of all debris,
as a extra measure it used an old aircraft trick and utilized safety wire at the rubber end of finished fitting as a secondary clamp as the exterior diameter of the fuel line was a little smaller than the original.
Go on YouTube and search safety wire hose clamp.
I also used one wrap of rubber electrical tape to increase the diameter of the fuel line that the cover screws over.


Now a word of warning for all,
I replaced my fuel filters and oil filter with spin on filters.
I reused the original 90-degree fittings, they were 1/2 full of crap and debris and had to use a wire to get the crap out.
So, this means most if not all of us need to do some cleaning on all fittings and metal low pressure fuel lines as preventative maintenance.

Ken

 

[Brother Hec]

Ken.
thank you for sharing about reuse of fittings on original fuel lines. I would also like to reuse them but can’t figure out how. Do you screw two female ends onto male/male coupler/union to hold everything rigid then put wrench on collars covering hose? I say this because I can’t get collar off end of hose to disassemble fitting. Please explain this process if fittings can be disassembled/reused

 

[Kahles56]

Ken.
thank you for sharing about reuse of fittings on original fuel lines. I would also like to reuse them but can’t figure out how. Do you screw two female ends onto male/male coupler/union to hold everything rigid then put wrench on collars covering hose? I say this because I can’t get collar off end of hose to disassemble fitting. Please explain this process if fittings can be disassembled/reused

Actually, it is the other way around sort of.

Place the hose and big collar in a vice, enough pressure to grab the collar, take a 90-degree fitting off one of your fuel filters, screw it into the fitting and tighten,
Now take a wrench and place on nut above the large collar, if I remember correctly turn nut and 90-degree fitting counterclockwise it might be clock wise, cannot remember, anyhow unscrew the nut/fitting from hose and collar.
Once removed place hose in vice to hold hose about 1 inch away from collar, take wrench and turn clockwise /countercockwise and remove collar.

You have to use the 90-degree fitting to dissemble the hose as well as to assemble.

Now that said, I just cannot for the life of me Rember which way the different items turn to remove, I do Rember that the collar is opposite of the smaller nut and fitting.

Assemble new hose and if the collar seems loose them dissemble ,, place one turn rubber tape at end of hose on a 30 degree slant ,screw collar on hose, you may have to use a semi sharp object to push and to hold tape in place as you turn on the collar, bottom out the collar on the hose end, now place hose and collar back in vice and grab collar, take nut and assembled 90degree fitting and screw into hose and collar. do not bottom out on collar with nut , the nut must be able to just turn when screwing nut on to 90-degree fitting when fitting has been put back on filter.
Rember that you can use a ss wire at collar end as extra security after whole system hose has been assembled.



almost all of the fittings are -5 fittings except for one hose assembly, cannot remember which hose. Ther is one hose that is -4.

I would remove hoses and then measure each one from end of collar to end of collar and add 1-1/2 inch to each line as it will make it easer to reattach the hoses.

First hose takes about 30-45 min to do , all other hoses can be done in ` 15 min each hose.

I spent about $ 45 on hose total for I think 20'.
Spec hose is $12-18 dollar a foot.

If you replace the oil line, and I expect you may need to, I would get spec hose from an airplane supply company.

 

[Ray70]

The return line from the IP to the tank is the -4 AN ( 1/4" JIC ) line.
I believe the oil pressure gage feed line is also -4
Everything else ( fuel wise ) is -5 (5/16"JIC)

 

[Brother Hec]

Sorry I haven’t said much lately. I figured I better quit before I tire you out with my questions. I do want to report my success!! I got my engine to fire and run without stopping. I did have to replace the E1 (first) pump because the coil was not working (burnt/shorted). I replaced it with the pump I showed in my previous post. It works GREAT and according to manufacturer, it is a “flow-through” pump like the original. I ran the pumps (using 5gal Jerrycan with clean diesel) to clear out air and it fired up just fine. Thank you for all your well wishes and kind advice. I couldn’t have done it without you all…. thank you from the bottom of my heart.

my next project is clean out fuel tank and figure out how to setup generator for 3 phase, 220 volt operation. I want to use generator to run irrigation pump. I will start another thread/topic here on forum. PLEASE look for it and continue to share your wisdom with me.
Brother Hec

 

[Ray70]

Glad you were successful with the pump!
Once you get started on cleaning the tank we definitely have some pointers for you.