MEP-003A with PLC controlled auto start

[bimota]

PeterD, I also have an MEP-004 that I will auto start with a Dynagen GSC300 - if you actually work up a wiring diagram I'll help finalize and post. Let me know!

 

[derf]

Add a couple ins and outs and you can use the PLC for auto start and transfer control in backup situations.
I like the Omron PLCs. They are very similar to the one you used.

 

[sewerzuk]

First, great work. I love to see this kind of real re-use rather than these once expensive and well built machines sitting in the yard, rusting. So much hardware gets wasted.

The more important sharing is the wiring diagram. I use a more standard auto start called the Dynagen GSC 300 which costs about $300 plus 24 volt relays. You could help us out by scratching out and posting a basic wiring diagram. We don't need the PLC coding since that is not an option for most of us but a basic MEP-003 auto start wiring diagram would be huge!

Ladder logic is easier than you think...I figured my first program out with zero help, prior experience, etc. The cost of the PLC and housing is less than $100; and the options for programming are unlimited. The software is free from the manufacturer. I would me more than willing to email my program to anybody trying to replicate my project (I would modify it to remove the compressor control, of course). I could even customize it for your application...

Without knowing what the outputs are on your controller, I believe that my wiring diagram may not work, or be misleading, incorrect, etc.
Do you have a link to a schematic or installation instructions for the Dynagen? Does it have provisions for operating the glow plugs/manifold heater, crank timing, etc.? This could be done with time delay relays as well, but the cost of 3 time delay relays is more than the cost of the entire PLC setup.
All of my connections were made to the terminal boards inside of the MEP's control box, so a diagram wouldn't even be necessary. I can just list the TB connections for you. If I get some time this weekend, I'll open up the control panel and snap some pics showing how I routed everything. There are only a few connections to be made...basically, the PLC just takes the place of the start/run switch.

 

[Keith_J]

Fascinating. I was thinking this would also be great for those running off-grid yet wanting air conditioning. The MEP would only run when there is a call for AC or the battery bank driving the inverter (and rest of house) needs charging.

 

[sewerzuk]

Fascinating. I was thinking this would also be great for those running off-grid yet wanting air conditioning. The MEP would only run when there is a call for AC or the battery bank driving the inverter (and rest of house) needs charging.

That would be fairly easy to program into the PLC; the possibilities for automation are nearly limitless. You could make the generator start up under just about any kind of input...weather (rain, wind, how bright the sun is shining, etc.), when a load switches on (as you were describing with the A/C or maybe a big piece of 3 phase shop equipment like an air compressor, lathe, etc.), whenever battery voltage got too low, etc. It could even be integrated with some of the home automation products (like insteon or X10) so that you could use your cell phone or a remote to start it.

 

[aczlan]

What model PLC did you use? I am looking at getting a pair of MEP-003A gensets (one for us/one for the inlaws) and single button start would make it easier to sell the project to the CFO.

Thanks

Aaron Z

 

[sewerzuk]

What model PLC did you use? I am looking at getting a pair of MEP-003A gensets (one for us/one for the inlaws) and single button start would make it easier to sell the project to the CFO.

Thanks

Aaron Z

This one here:
SG2-12HR-D

Also got the enclosure:
ICB-0465

I plan on using the same setup in a few weeks on an MEP-004a that I am putting together

 

[aczlan]

This one here:
SG2-12HR-D
Also got the enclosure:
ICB-0465
I plan on using the same setup in a few weeks on an MEP-004a that I am putting together

Perfect.
I may bug you for a copy of your program or more info when/if I get to the generator project.

Thanks

Aaron Z

 

[sewerzuk]

Perfect.
I may bug you for a copy of your program or more info when/if I get to the generator project.

Thanks

Aaron Z

No problem; it is small and I can email it to you...
I'll take all of the extra compressor control stuff out of it.

The one thing I ran into was that the output relays would "flutter" while the engine was cranking. This only happened if it was really cold out, or the batteries were partially discharged. This was caused by the battery voltage dropping while the engine was turning over; the PLC was only getting about 18v while the engine was turning over, which was below the dropout voltage for its internal relays. So, I added an external time delay relay that solved the problem.
I was using a pair of group 54 batteries for my generator...the problem probably wouldn't exist if larger batteries were used, or if the PLC had some kind of standalone power supply.
Just something to keep in mind while you are putting together your system...

 

[rogersn67]

Very nice setup, thanks for sharing! I may have a new project now! (because I need another)

 

[JimH]

If it wouldn't be too much trouble, I would like to get on your list for a copy of the ladder logic.
I have been looking at how to auto start my MEP-003a, and have been reluctant (with all the other things that are going on) to invest the time to re-invent the wheel, so to speak.


I have a manual transfer switch now, but I got a couple of big contactors, so my next project will be to build an ATS.

Thanks for you time,

Jim
Delaware, OH

 

[sewerzuk]

If it wouldn't be too much trouble, I would like to get on your list for a copy of the ladder logic.
I have been looking at how to auto start my MEP-003a, and have been reluctant (with all the other things that are going on) to invest the time to re-invent the wheel, so to speak.


I have a manual transfer switch now, but I got a couple of big contactors, so my next project will be to build an ATS.

Thanks for you time,

Jim
Delaware, OH

No problem; if anybody wants the file, just shoot me a PM with your email address and I'll send it to you.

You can download the programming software for free from FactoryMation...here's the link:
SG2-SW

And some links to some documentation:
http://factorymation.info/plr/SG2PLR_AppEx.pdf
http://factorymation.info/plr/SG2V3_UserManual.pdf
http://factorymation.info/catalog/fmcat_sg2_specs.pdf

 

[jjayala]

Picture of Connections

I have the PLC on order you're using in the video. It seems you just tapping off the multi-switch connections and wiring this to the terminals on the PLC. Can someone please post a picture of how you did this internally, just to make sure I'm going about this the right way.

 

[sewerzuk]

I have the PLC on order you're using in the video. It seems you just tapping off the multi-switch connections and wiring this to the terminals on the PLC. Can someone please post a picture of how you did this internally, just to make sure I'm going about this the right way.

Yep!
Pics posted below.
To everybody who I emailed the PLC program to, here is how the connections should be made:


Power to the PLC: tb 5-10

Fuel pump/shutoff solenoid output Q1: TB 5-7
Manifold heat/glow plugs output Q2: K2-X1
Start relay output Q3: TB 5-9
Field flash output Q4: TB 4-10

This way, no cuts, crimps, splices, etc. need to be made. The system can be removed without any wire repairs, and the generator can still be started manually in the event the PLC fails.

Momentary pushbutton NO switch is used to start the generator sequence, and provides 24V to I1 on the PLC.

Shutdown is accomplished by interrupting power to the PLC. I used a NC momentary pushbutton switch in the power supply line going to the PLC.


Keep in mind, I modified this program from my existing air compressor/mag starter/auto start setup...it is much simpler than my setup and it should work fine, but since I haven't tested it there may be a bug or two to work out.

 

[quickfarms]

Vere cool

 

[sewerzuk]

It was pretty cold this morning, so I shot a cold start video; the genset fails to start on the first attempt. When it finally does start, it is just on 2 cylinders so there is plenty of diesel smoke! It does demonstrate what the PLC is capable of with no input from me...

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9HhFrEHJOc[/media]

 

[aczlan]

Looks great. Always good to be able to test your equipment when it isn't critical that it works.

Aaron Z

 

[dfullerpt]

I wanted to say thank you for the post and for the program. I learned how to write a program modified yours and have mine operating a latching contactor which I wired over the memorial day holiday and WOW its awesome one button and within a couple minutes Lights go on.

Thanks again

 

[enigmapaul]

dynagen

the dynagen gsc300 manual is here DynaGen customer support

it is very helpful. no point in re-inventing the wheel!

Ladder logic is easier than you think...I figured my first program out with zero help, prior experience, etc. The cost of the PLC and housing is less than $100; and the options for programming are unlimited. The software is free from the manufacturer. I would me more than willing to email my program to anybody trying to replicate my project (I would modify it to remove the compressor control, of course). I could even customize it for your application...

Without knowing what the outputs are on your controller, I believe that my wiring diagram may not work, or be misleading, incorrect, etc.
Do you have a link to a schematic or installation instructions for the Dynagen? Does it have provisions for operating the glow plugs/manifold heater, crank timing, etc.? This could be done with time delay relays as well, but the cost of 3 time delay relays is more than the cost of the entire PLC setup.
All of my connections were made to the terminal boards inside of the MEP's control box, so a diagram wouldn't even be necessary. I can just list the TB connections for you. If I get some time this weekend, I'll open up the control panel and snap some pics showing how I routed everything. There are only a few connections to be made...basically, the PLC just takes the place of the start/run switch.

 

[dfarr67]

http://atkinsonelectronics.com/manufacturing/product_pdfs/GSCM.pdf

Any experiance or info on something like this? No price on it.