MEP-804B - New to me, I have a few questions

[Coug]

Only caveat about pulling fuel from an auxiliary tank, you want to try to keep the aux tank fuel level below the level of the generator fill cap. From what I've read if the aux fuel level is too high it can gravity feet/siphon into the day tank on the generator and overflow the day tank.

I agree the kohler engine should last longer than that, but the RES series was designed for emergency standby operation, not prime power.


I'm the same way about diesels. The farm tractor is diesel, my F450 7.3l, my 2010 VW sportwagen, my HMMWV, and my generator. Unfortunately red diesel here isn't all that much cheaper than highway fuel, so for the amounts the generator and tractor use, it isn't really worth it to make special trips to go buy it (30 miles away)

 

[410Customs]

Allright guys here we go

As soon as I wire up the 804b I get an over voltage light and engine shut down
I remove my wires, reset the lights and it runs fine.
As soon as I wire up my cable again it gives the light again and will not run
This is with the cable not even plugged into the house! I have checked my cable and there is nothing wrong with it
Brand new 30' of 4/6 240V cable
All I did was add a 30 amp leviton female end to it so I can plug it into the house
IT DOES THIS EVEN with the cable hooked up to the genset but NOT PLUGGED INTO ANYTHING



On my load terminal board there is a bus bar connected from ground to N is this normal?

the generator starts and runs fine until I hook it up to wires?? I am wondering since I have a green ground wire, a white N wire, a red L1 wire and a black L2 wire, should I remove the bus bar that apparently connects N to G??

 

[Guyfang]

So why not get a 600 gal fuel pod, and use the fuel for your other stuff too?

At last. Another diesel lover! Gas sucks. Long live the diesel king!

 

[410Customs]

Shes purring like a kitten
Battery bank is fully charged
I had top remove the bus bar that was attaching N to G
Then I had to learn how to use the controls and reset any lights...... we good
You guys are great
VERY Impressed with how it runs, how quiet it is and how quickly it charged the batteries
I had it dialed at 60HZ 120V between legs L1 and N and L3 and N
no faults

Now we are going to unload it off of my truck
Initial test COMPLETE!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[410Customs]

So day started off a little rough... but after removing this bus bar

I DO NOT need continuity between G and N for my application!

And checking all my wiring 10000 times

We fired her up, learned how the knobs and protections work, and she was sending proper voltage to the outback system
using a "test cable" to the backup generator port on the side of the house

Between L1 and N

So next step unload from truck

I just happen to have an empty trailer that fits the bill until we can build the new generator pad

done and done

Near its new home
OUT WITH THE OLD

We dug up the wiring from the now defunct Kohler
And used it to tie the 804b into the house

I am a HAPPY MAN!!!!!!!

I am actually looking forward to the next time the battery bank gets low

Tomorrow is my 48th B day
Phew
WHAT A RIDE!!!

WE SHALL PERSEVERE

Thanks to all the knowledge posted on this website, it looks like we pulled it off

Next step = proper transformer
This genset will be our base of operations will/can run daily for 5-6 months out of the year

 

[410Customs]

So why not get a 600 gal fuel pod, and use the fuel for your other stuff too?

At last. Another diesel lover! Gas sucks. Long live the diesel king!

Ahhhh so that's what the reply button does....cool
So the question now is
How many gallons of diesel can I legally haul down the road on a trailer?
And how much does it weigh?

Red diesel is only 5 miles away from me, our road is more of a 4x4 obstacle course then a road, so I have to be able to haul a diesel tank in and out ideally even when muddy or covered in ice (you never know).

2-300 gallons would go a long way back here, all of our diesel equipment is small(ish) and sips fuel really

We are in a flood plane protected wetlands, so any fuel storage must be done properly, a 600 gallon "pod" would also require a containment field or whatever they call it, so I have to watch the rules and regulation carefully and then BUILD STUFF!!!!!!!


Oh and I gotta do it on the cheap because after this I am BROKE!! and still need more batteries and some solar panels............

 

[robertsears1]

That picture showing the exhaust is rather smokey. Unless it is right at start, you may need to get a good load on it to burn out the carbon, search wet stacking. My 804b is more robust than my 804a. I now have 5 FDECU (field deployable environmental control unit) 5 ton heat pumps for some reason. They will get up to 80% load with the compressor and heat strips running but it needs 60 amps per phase at 208 v and will sometimes trip the short light since the inrush of current can be huge. I was getting never put in service units for around $130 but they removed the 134a for some crazy reason on two units.. I have put around 600 hours on mine cooling my house for the last two years since I have some leaks in my ground loop geothermal.

 

[Guyfang]

Ahhhh so that's what the reply button does....cool
So the question now is
How many gallons of diesel can I legally haul down the road on a trailer?
And how much does it weigh?

Red diesel is only 5 miles away from me, our road is more of a 4x4 obstacle course then a road, so I have to be able to haul a diesel tank in and out ideally even when muddy or covered in ice (you never know).

2-300 gallons would go a long way back here, all of our diesel equipment is small(ish) and sips fuel really

We are in a flood plane protected wetlands, so any fuel storage must be done properly, a 600 gallon "pod" would also require a containment field or whatever they call it, so I have to watch the rules and regulation carefully and then BUILD STUFF!!!!!!! No. There are such things to be had. Military surplus.

Oh, don't you think its about time to read the TM's? If you are just now learning how to operate this gen set, well.......................................... I suppose better late then never. But before something happens, you need to read the books cover to cover.


Oh and I gotta do it on the cheap because after this I am BROKE!! and still need more batteries and some solar panels............

Open to see comments.

 

[410Customs]

I have the manuals downloaded and I even have the paper copy that came w the genset!

I have read through them a little bit, used them for troubleshooting. I have read about every 803 and 804 genset post on the internet, I have watched every video there is out there about these things....I have been a good student.
I knew more about this generator then most machines before it ever even got to the house.
I learn by doing and researching online, however I take your advice and I appreciate it. I will get more familiar with the manuals
My problem was between the time I got it home and got it hooked up I had so much to learn about this house, the outback, power in general, solar, batteries, etc I had forgotten some about the controls. Life is a good teacher. I have been around generators for many years, diesel engines and equipment, I feel I have a good grip on this machine and its inner workings and controls. I had turned the frequency and voltage dials all the way down thinking that was a good way to start the generator with everything set to off...... whooops! That will give you a overvoltage shut down light or a under voltage circuit interrupt doing that. So you are correct, read the TM's!!

I feel like I have been to war, for the last month I have been eating, breathing and not sleeping all about this power system and genset.
Something about spending way too much money and effort on a generator that may or may not work with our setup, the lives of 6 people depending on me getting it all going and working, just a little pressure.
A huge weight has been lifted.
We are winning!!
THANKS TO YOU GUYS!

Generator has now charged the house twice, it starts and runs like new. We are really really enjoying it! I think it has used a total of 2 gallons of fuel, the generac would have burned up 15-20 gallons of gasoline to do that. The batteries have reached 58.4V which is a full charge, I have NEVER seen over 57.0V with the kohler or generac..... granted some of that was likely the house wiring and some outback settings....
Now I have both solar arrays charging, the diesel genset charging, and the kohler is in the garage.
I found the rear cylinder of the kohler is not firing.......the new spark plug for that cylinder still looks brand new. Might just need an ignition coil?
I will find out!

Oh and the 804B did smoke just a bit at first startup, then it let out some black soot when the house first connected to it, otherwise it cleared right up and now there is very little diesel smoke when it is running.
I installed two brand new group 65 AGM batteries, checked all fluids, topped off the coolant, checked every setting and gave the unit a thorough inspection way before I ever even turned the know to start.
VERY HAPPY with the results............ very happy.
Time for a generator sale!!

Next up is to finish building the new generator stand and shack.... then I have this 1985 Onan 6.0 DJB diesel generator that needs to run... it ran 4 years ago when we moved here, if I can get it running again the neighbor is interested in it. I will likely start a thread on here for that bad boy too....its not a military machine, but it is badass

 

[Coug]

So unrelated to the 804, but here is some Kohler info

for the kohler yes, it likely either needs an ignition coil, or there is a chance the wire itself is shorting out. If you can run it when it's dark outside and look back there the best you can, sometimes you can actually see the spark jumping from around the plug boot to the cylinder head. A few wraps of PVC tape (or electrical tape) can fix that. Also a chance of the wiring failing inside the blower housing. Getting the blower housing off is a bit of a pain, commonly have to remove lid, then front and exhaust end panels, then anything else necessary to unbolt the engine/generator assembly to slide it back and access the blower housing and remove it. The actual ignition coil replacement takes a couple minutes, getting to that point is commonly 1-2 hours depending on how many of the bolts and rivnuts decide to spin in the fiberglass/resin of the housing and base. Then another hour or two for reassembly. (typically it's a 3 hour job start to finish even being experienced with these units, so don't be disheartened if you tackle it and it takes a day or three)

occasionally it can be the wire inside the housing that connects the two coils together and is used to shut off the generator. Some of these units get their speed sensing signal through that wire, and it has a diode in it to prevent interference. If that wire gets messed up it can cause poor running, improper speeds, and make one or both of the ignition coils not work.
If you decide to tear into this and want the parts ahead of time I'd recommend both the ignition coil as well as the wire harness that plugs into the coils since you're already in there.

 

[Guyfang]

Next up is to finish building the new generator stand and shack....

When you are ready to start planning, say something.

 

[russo200]

intersting, have you used it as 240 single phase yet? (20. or did you wire it 240/416 and use L1 and !#? Thanks. I need to run 240 singl to my aims inverter but I believe the inverter is for many places with different voltages and it has an operating range from 167 volts to 243. if this is correct, then I'll use the 208. still want auto start back up for this 804B. Thanks for listening.

 

[Coug]

intersting, have you used it as 240 single phase yet? (208 ). or did you wire it 240/416 and use L1 and L3? Thanks. I need to run 240 singl to my aims inverter but I believe the inverter is for many places with different voltages and it has an operating range from 167 volts to 243. if this is correct, then I'll use the 208. still want auto start back up for this 804B. Thanks for listening.

I think the OP is just using it in 120/208 mode and drawing 2 legs of 120V off of it. (L1-N, L3-N)

To my understanding, if you set it to 240/416 and go L1 to L3 you'll have 416V, which is way higher than the 120V interters he is using will take.

For 240 single phase you'd be best off wiring it to 2 of the legs and adjusting the voltage up a bit unless you're trying to do some 120V loads off of it as well.
Your AIMS inverter isn't likely to care what the input voltage is, if it cares about anything it's going to be frequency.

If you set it to 240/416 you'll only be able to draw at most 1/3 of the rated power, because you're only using a single leg. With it in 120/208 and wiring it to two legs you'll have 2/3 the rated power available to the inverter. (doesn't matter much if you're only powering the inverter and it's 5kw or below, but above that you'd be losing out)

 

[russo200]

Makes sense to me. I'll Take 2 legs off the 208 and also remove the combiner bar between G and N and use them separately.

I believe there is a way to reconfigure to single-phase like the other 15Kw 12 bolt head gens by moving the transformers but I don't know how to do that but am willing to learn. Thanks...

 

[Coug]

Makes sense to me. I'll Take 2 legs off the 208 and also remove the combiner bar between G and N and use them separately.

I believe there is a way to reconfigure to single-phase like the other 15Kw 12 bolt head gens by moving the transformers but I don't know how to do that but am willing to learn. Thanks...

no, the 804 is a 10 wire gen head, you should read earlier in this thread where it's emphatically stated this model can NOT be reconfigured to single phase.

 

[Guyfang]

Makes sense to me. I'll Take 2 legs off the 208 and also remove the combiner bar between G and N and use them separately.

I believe there is a way to reconfigure to single-phase like the other 15Kw 12 bolt head gens by moving the transformers but I don't know how to do that but am willing to learn. Thanks...

MEP-804B - New to me, I have a few questions

What you need to do is start your own thread here. It will bring you more viability, and not confuse others about what this thread is about.

 

[410Customs]

FOUND broken exhaust port liner on the Kohler engine. Exhaust port liner split in half? Half of it made its way into the muffler which explains the metal sound I always heard when running and the other half turned sideways and was completely clogging the exhaust port? Could it be that simple? $15 part! Sheesh
My guess is it heated up and split apart for a reason
I will keep digging, it is easy with the kohler on a cart sitting inside a heated shop
As I type this the 804b is outside purring along

Yes the 804b is running single phase, on two of the 3 legs. It runs smoothly and does not appear to care about the "unbalanced load"
The combiner bar has been removed
The AC input to the Outback system is wired to the G, N, L1 and L3 lugs.
Between L1 and N, I have 120V, between L3 and N I have 120V and my stacked outback inverters are very happy. We do plan to add an autotransformer into the system to give the genset a true 3 phase load, I need this unit to last a long long time......
One thing at a time!!

 

[G744]

You really don't need a transformer.

Our house is grid fed with 120/208 3 phase wye. 120V loads (single breakers) are fairly balanced.

The 208V single phase loads (dual breakers) like H2O heaters, stove, oven, all perform just fine, even tho they were rated for 240V.

Our HVAC system uses 208V 3ph.

A good 3ph load center panel makes all that use much easier: put in the right breaker type, you get the power you need.

The eBay link is the type I have: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Square-D-N...487139&hash=item343e166509:g:TaoAAOSwryBgR9IB

We also have a 20kW 3ph Diesel genset on autotransfer if needed.

Your GI genset has the 240/416V (actually adjustable to modern 277/480V) for industrial type loads, leave it on the 120/208 tap.

Don't make it more complex than necessary.

G744

 

[410Customs]

interesting! Fuel to the fire

I have nothing here that requires 3 phase, in fact we have nothing here that requires 240V! Even our well pump is 120
I would not ever be using a 3 phase load through that panel
Does that matter?

I see it looks like the 3rd phase down the middle contacts the breaker spots with the screws in them
So if I put some 120 loads on L1, some on L2 and some on L3 you are saying it would be pretty well balanced

very interesting! Learning as I go

 

[410Customs]

The plot thickens! Tearing the Kohler down found a broken exhaust port liner, half of it made its way into the muffler, the other half turned sideways and was blocking the exhaust port

2014 Kohler RES14, LPG, 2680 hours
I have rebuilt a few V twins (kawasaki, Yami) this is the first time I have seen this

gives new meaning to the term "rattle can exhaust"

front cylinder looks like a little oil getting past the valve seal.

rear cyl this is the one w the broken liner / plug looks like it was not firing