"MEP Generators Versus Father Time"

[loosegravel]

I've got a question for those who are wiser than I. When looking at prospective generators to buy on Iron Planet or Government Planet I'm wondering what is a danger area as far as hours? I know this is an extremely vague question. In my experience with working around other types of equipment with hour meters (transport refrigeration units is one) the equivalent to over the road vehicles was to use 60 miles per hour of time. So a genset with say 4000 hours on it would equate to 240,000 miles. Is this the formula that you would all use? When I sell these units people always want to know how many hours is a lot or too much. I'm a firm believer that these marvelous machines are fully capable of running 10,000 hours before needing an overhaul, provided they've been properly maintained of course. I haven't researched the TM's to see what the military spec is for needing an overhaul. It appears that the hour meters are replaced when a tier 2 reset has taken place, but I don't know about a tier 1 reset? I looked but didn't see anything in previous posts about hours of time on these machines and what to stay away from. Thanks as always for the information that you all provide!

 

[DieselAddict]

With the number of variables at play here its hard to say for sure. What I can offer from my thoughts is I would rather have a machine with 3000 hours on it that has been run properly and maintained versus one with 300 hours that has been abused.

For this discussion I'm ignoring fluids since those are wear items and should be changed at responsible intervals.

With anything we need to look at the weakest link. In my opinion the weakest link in these machines over the long term of time is the rubber bits. That stuff degrades whether the machine is used or not. For example fuel return lines should be replaced every few years regardless of operating hours. Coolant hoses, crank seals, accessory belt, etc. This is the stuff in my opinion that will start to cause problems before a well maintained and operated engine wears out.

10k/hrs isn't unreasonable for these engines if properly maintained.

 

[Light in the Dark]

Because hour meters can be changed (with no documentation required)... they should only be used as a piece of your decision making. Ive seen hours be rated as an equivalent of anywhere between 25 and 60 miles in OTR equipment.

In a chart provided by Green Mountain Generators, they list a MTBF (Mean Time Before Failure) of 486 hr @ 80% LCL on these sets. That is assuming under deployed conditions. Not a very encouraging number, but also one to be taken with an asterisk. The Tier 2 resets are automatically activated at... and I am going off memory here... at 3500 hours even if the machine is in tip top shape. There is a good document that exists (and can be found with sleuthing in this forum) on the entire Tier process.

Lister-Petter warranties the Alpha series (LPW2/LPW4) for 24 months/2000 hours. I believe that 10k hours is a reasonable expectation for the sets. There have been SS users who have sold machines into off grid situations that have exceeded 20k hours with only 'accessory' replacements.

As DieselAddict said... its really machine specific.

 

[loosegravel]

Because hour meters can be changed (with no documentation required)... they should only be used as a piece of your decision making. Ive seen hours be rated as an equivalent of anywhere between 25 and 60 miles in OTR equipment.

In a chart provided by Green Mountain Generators, they list a MTBF (Mean Time Before Failure) of 486 hr @ 80% LCL on these sets. That is assuming under deployed conditions. Not a very encouraging number, but also one to be taken with an asterisk. The Tier 2 resets are automatically activated at... and I am going off memory here... at 3500 hours even if the machine is in tip top shape. There is a good document that exists (and can be found with sleuthing in this forum) on the entire Tier process.

Lister-Petter warranties the Alpha series (LPW2/LPW4) for 24 months/2000 hours. I believe that 10k hours is a reasonable expectation for the sets. There have been SS users who have sold machines into off grid situations that have exceeded 20k hours with only 'accessory' replacements.

As DieselAddict said... its really machine specific.

Thanks for the input. I'm thinking that a properly sized unit for the work that it's doing is equally important. But again, in the wonderful world of used equipment and purchasing them from auction it is really a crap shoot. I am a gambling man and I'm having fun with these things! I can say without question though after having a dozen or more of these machines go through my hands now that they are very well built. I was talking with a guy at the Ritchie Brothers Auction yard in Chehalis Washington the other day when I was picking up a couple of MEP-802A's on trailers. He's the person there who tests these units, gets them running and takes the photos of them for the Iron Planet auctions. I commented on his photos and such, said he did a good job. He asked me if there's anything that he could do that would make them better. I thought for a moment about one MEP-803A that I bought a couple of years ago that didn't have the exhaust flap in place. I didn't see that in the photos for the IP auction when I bid on it. It was listed as "not running" though. The engine was seized from rain water intrusion. So I asked this guy if he could take photos of the exhaust flaps, showing if they're in place or not. With the rain that we get in the NW and without an exhaust flap in place this would sway my decision to bid on one of these. Thanks guys!

 

[Coug]

Hours of use mean nothing on a generator. In the civilian world I work on Generac home standby generators.
I've seen 10 year old generators with under 100 hours on them needing replaced because they are literally falling apart (salt air near the ocean)
I've seen 1 year old generators with 4500+ hours on them still going strong.
I've had 15 year old gens that never even had an oil change that ran great after a valve adjustment
and I've seen gens needing new engines at 20 hours of use because of improper install or assembly from factory.

Hours/years mean nothing compared to how it's been stored/used/treated.

 

[Guyfang]

It depends on the gen set. What size. Everyone here talks about small gen sets. What about 15-100 KW gen sets? A good friend of mine told me the 30-60 KW gen sets down range run 30-40 thousands hours, no problemo. And more. So before you ask the question, define just what you want to know, about what size gen set.

 

[loosegravel]

Hours of use mean nothing on a generator. In the civilian world I work on Generac home standby generators.
I've seen 10 year old generators with under 100 hours on them needing replaced because they are literally falling apart (salt air near the ocean)
I've seen 1 year old generators with 4500+ hours on them still going strong.
I've had 15 year old gens that never even had an oil change that ran great after a valve adjustment
and I've seen gens needing new engines at 20 hours of use because of improper install or assembly from factory.

Hours/years mean nothing compared to how it's been stored/used/treated.

Yep, that’s the big variable. Hence it’s a crap shoot since nobody knows the history of them, other than they were used by the military hopefully with an active preventative maintenance schedule. Thanks for the invite bro!

 

[frank8003]

Those guys did what was required to keep the AC/heat and the lights on, nothing special.
Albiet, some generators built to last forever with proper maintenance.
Just buy them and use them up like the military does.

 

[Coug]

Those guys did what was required to keep the AC/heat and the lights on, nothing special.
Albiet, some generators built to last forever with proper maintenance.
Just buy them and use them up like the military does.

been there, done that.

Ran one MEP-804 for 2 weeks with the radiator full of ground pepper to keep it from leaking so badly until we could get it back to base for a new radiator.

It's what we had available, and it worked for a temporary fix.

Smelled a little funny, and I got to argue with the CW2 in charge of the motor pool that it was indeed pepper and not stop-leak or similar products, but by then he was getting used to me.

 

[loosegravel]

been there, done that.

Ran one MEP-804 for 2 weeks with the radiator full of ground pepper to keep it from leaking so badly until we could get it back to base for a new radiator.

It's what we had available, and it worked for a temporary fix.

Smelled a little funny, and I got to argue with the CW2 in charge of the motor pool that it was indeed pepper and not stop-leak or similar products, but by then he was getting used to me.

I never got to go into the military. Always wanted to but in 1980 when I graduated from high school they were so selective. With a slightly “tainted” record the recruiting team took a pass on me. My hat is off to anyone who has/ is serving our country! Thank you sincerely.

 

[Guyfang]

In 1972, if your body wasn't dead longer then two weeks, you were in like Flint!

 

[loosegravel]

In 1972, if your body wasn't dead longer then two weeks, you were in like Flint!

My oldest brother graduated in 72. (I’m the youngest boy of 6. I have a younger sister too) He enlisted in the Air Force for a few years. My dad was born in 27. He spent some time in the Navy, but it was just after the end of WWII. I believe the military is the machine that keeps us running, and most importantly it helps to keep our borders safe.

 

[cuad4u]

I have one 803A , two 003A's, and one 002A. I am no expert but IMO the 002A and 003A seem to "weather" time better than the 803A and 802A. I think this is because the air cooled units have fewer parts and are simpler in design. The big issue with the air cooled units is NOISE.

 

[Light in the Dark]

I feel the fueling system on the 80x series is a better design. More complex, yes... but the IP on those older units can be problematic. The metering pumps on the 80x series I prefer. Keep on top of either though, and they should be there when you need them.

YMMV

 

[loosegravel]

I feel the fueling system on the 80x series is a better design. More complex, yes... but the IP on those older units can be problematic. The metering pumps on the 80x series I prefer. Keep on top of either though, and they should be there when you need them.

YMMV

Thanks for the input. I now have (1) MEP-804B, (2) MEP-803A's and (4) MEP-802A's in my inventory. All of these came with trailers. What's interesting to me is that most people who buy these generators here in the NW only want the generator. Then there's a different group of people who are only interested in the trailers. So I've been splitting them up. I'm in the process of going through the (2) MEP-803A's and (2) of the MEP-802A's. None of these recent units has more than 2500 hours showing on the meters. The units that are showing less than 100 hours are always bid up too high for this kid. If I were bidding on one to keep for myself that would be one thing. But because I'm buying these to sell it's just not economical for me to pay what these very low hour units are going for. That was my main reason for putting my feelers out there on this very cool forum. I was just trying to get a basic idea of what to stay away from as far as accumulative hours are concerned. This time of year may not be a good time to try to sell these either. Are your moving very fast Rich? It seems that the best time to sell these generators is when the power is actually going out! I do like the way that the MEP-802A's and the MEP-803A's have 12 wire heads on them and put out true single or three phase power. I appreciate this forum very much. A person can take the meat/potatoes and leave the rest behind! Thanks for being there.

 

[Chainbreaker]

I have one 803A , two 003A's, and one 002A. I am no expert but IMO the 002A and 003A seem to "weather" time better than the 803A and 802A. I think this is because the air cooled units have fewer parts and are simpler in design. The big issue with the air cooled units is NOISE.

I agree with you regarding the -002a/-003a being a simpler design as far as military gensets go, and from my experience are fairly easy to troubleshoot. The issue I see is unit availability is diminishing due to gov't surplus units have mostly been disposed of. The good news is they share many common engine parts with the civilian Onan generators of that vintage.

As far as the injection pump goes in these units, or for that matter any genset model, my experience has been that if you exercise the generator regularly loaded and use good filtered + treated diesel fuel they remain reliable. Sitting unused with stale diesel throughout the fuel system is the killer!

Of course, if I ran across a good deal on a -802a/-803a I would not hesitate to recommend to a friend or neighbor. However, since I am fully invested in my four -002a's with lots of spares I plan to hoard them & keep em running for a long-long time. They perform well and are all I need to run my dual electrical service entrances on the compound where noise is not a factor. Its just music to my ears when they are running and powering up the compound during an outage.

Here is an interesting milestone for a -002a that SS member Philratcliffe shared regarding one of his -002a units in a seaside tropical climate under some fairly rugged commercial conditions:

I run my island hotel on an mep 002a. Two coffin lg freezers four fridges 80+ fans blenders music and over 1000 watts of light at night it burns between 7-8 gal per 24hours. I have over 25k hours on one of my 002s. Swap injectors (rebuild kits are 35 bucks on eBay) change oil every 175 hours or weekly. Oil one week oil and filter the next. Can’t kill them lol

I think there is a lot to be said for his exercising them like a plow horse every day along with his periodic maintenance schedule. Work em hard, then treat & feed em good!

 

[Light in the Dark]

Thanks for the input. I now have (1) MEP-804B, (2) MEP-803A's and (4) MEP-802A's in my inventory. All of these came with trailers. What's interesting to me is that most people who buy these generators here in the NW only want the generator. Then there's a different group of people who are only interested in the trailers. So I've been splitting them up. I'm in the process of going through the (2) MEP-803A's and (2) of the MEP-802A's. None of these recent units has more than 2500 hours showing on the meters. The units that are showing less than 100 hours are always bid up too high for this kid. If I were bidding on one to keep for myself that would be one thing. But because I'm buying these to sell it's just not economical for me to pay what these very low hour units are going for. That was my main reason for putting my feelers out there on this very cool forum. I was just trying to get a basic idea of what to stay away from as far as accumulative hours are concerned. This time of year may not be a good time to try to sell these either. Are your moving very fast Rich? It seems that the best time to sell these generators is when the power is actually going out! I do like the way that the MEP-802A's and the MEP-803A's have 12 wire heads on them and put out true single or three phase power. I appreciate this forum very much. A person can take the meat/potatoes and leave the rest behind! Thanks for being there.

I find interest to be very seasonal. I can range from a few machines in a month, to nothing for 9+ months. The larger concern for me is good inventory in the future. Whats being pushed out now is garbage compared to only a few years ago... we are already seeing "whats left".

 

[frank8003]

In 1972, if your body wasn't dead longer then two weeks, you were in like Flint!

1968 1969 was moreso
Johnson had us all in there, rich, poor, stupid, smart, and the NG too

 

[Guyfang]

Thats what I think was so great about the draft. The wide spectrum of really different folks, made the Army a bit more "real". I was in basic with collage grads, collage duds, farmers, rich boys, lots more Yankees then are in now, lots of foreigners, and like the text of "Alice's Restaurant"put it:

And I, I walked over to the, to the bench there, and there is, Group W's
where they put you if you may not be moral enough to join the army after
committing your special crime, and there was all kinds of mean nasty ugly
looking people on the bench there. Mother rapers. Father stabbers. Father
rapers! Father rapers sitting right there on the bench next to me! And
they was mean and nasty and ugly and horrible crime-type guys sitting on the
bench next to me. And the meanest, ugliest, nastiest one, the meanest
father raper of them all, was coming over to me and he was mean 'n' ugly
'n' nasty 'n' horrible and all kind of things and he sat down next to me
and said, "Kid, whad'ya get?" I said, "I didn't get nothing, I had to pay
$50 and pick up the garbage." He said, "What were you arrested for, kid?"
And I said, "Littering." And they all moved away from me on the bench
there, and the hairy eyeball and all kinds of mean nasty things, till I
said, "And creating a nuisance." And they all came back, shook my hand,
and we had a great time on the bench, talkin about crime, mother stabbing,
father raping, all kinds of groovy things that we was talking about on the
bench.

It made people get along somehow better.

 

[Chainbreaker]

And for those not familiar with the full version of Arlo Guthrie's song you can find it here. Those lyrics still ring in my head!