MEP Starter Issue--Not lockout switch?-Help

[Gudge2]

I bought two MEP002s on M103A trailer. Both have their issues but one has me baffled. When I first got it I tested it after cleaning the fuel system. It puffed white smoke and kicked off. I shut it down so I could check the fuel system again. I installed civilian spin on fuel and oil filters. Fat dumb and happy I went to start it again and got the dreaded clunk. The fuel solenoid operates fine but I can't get the starter to fire. I swapped out a spare starter and still nothing. I opened up the lockout switch and readjusted. Still nothing. So in a moment of frustration I took my long handled screw driver and jump the starter solenoid. The starter kicked over fine...so it's getting power.

Any ideas?

Gen 2, had injector pump rebuilt. Started but smoked. I figure I didn't get timing right. I pulled the pump and retimed. Now it's not getting fuel to the injectors. I bled the system just like I did the first time. I don't get it. Any tricks...I cracked open the fuel lines at the injectors--nothing.

 

[Isaac-1]

check the grounds for the control box, etc.

Ike

 

[Rapracing]

are the batteries FULLY charged? That seems to be something that has created issues for many looking at threads. Check the obvious if you haven't done so

 

[Ray70]

If all the obvious stuff checks out, use the schematic and start checking things in the starter circuit like the relay, switch, lockouts etc.
Sounds like you have battery power at the starter but no signal to the solenoid (you might want to confirm this by checking for voltage on the small wire( "S" terminal ) of the starter while cranking) Trace your path backwards from the starter to the switch using the schematic and you will easily locate the problem.

 

[bookpile]

I know you said you adjusted the starter lockout switch. But did you disconnect the plug and jumper the two wires? That's how I troubleshot my switch.

 

[Gudge2]

Thanks. I jumped the solenoid with a remote starter switch and the bendix turned but didn't engage the flywheel. I'll take a look at the schematic and work my way back. I jumped the starter lock out switch and got nothing...also checked and cleaned all the grounds--including to the control box. The starter switch works for the glow plugs and fuel pumps and when you turn it to start the fuel solenoid "clicks". I'm thinking it's not the switch.

It did work and the only thing I've done was to unplug the harness at the injector pump. Of course, as we all know, things break while they are just sitting too.

 

[rustystud]

When you jumped the starter you said it ran fine. Did you mean it cranked over the engine ? or did it just spin ? If it just spinned you might have a bad solenoid and it's not pulling in the bendix engaging the flywheel. If that's the case, tear down the starter and solenoid and clean the solenoid contacts at the bottom. They can get really burnt up.

 

[TucsonVTXF]

remove the solenoid and smell where the plunger goes into it and if it smells burnt and I mean really burnt then that's your problem.... usually solenoids go bad from over use or low voltage...

 

[Gudge2]

I replaced that starter and solenoid and still have the same problem. I jumped the starter lock out and nothing. I did make some progress. I bought a remote trigger type starter switch and put the clamps on the solenoid and reached over and turned the master switch to start...it cranked and fired right up. I tested for continuity from the switch to the solenoid and all is fine. What do you all think? Relay problem? and speaking of relay where the heck is K1? It's not in the control box. These things have a habit of finding one's weakness and mine is electrical. Remember, it was working fine...this is an issue that just appeared. The only thing I did was to change the oil filter and it cranked once or twice after..then nothing.

 

[rustystud]

You said you replaced the oil filter with the spin-on one. I'm wondering if something happened to the oil pressure switch. These switches are suppose to be replaced on a regular bases and seem to be a problem on a lot of units. Try jumping the switch. If it starts, replace the switch, don't bother trying to clean it out.

 

[Speddmon]

From what you are describing as your problem and symptoms. I think your issue lies in the "CR1" diode. This diode has caused issues before for people that I know if. More than likely the diode went bad and "opened" up, thus not allowing relay "K3" to energize. The symptoms of this look just like a bad or out of adjustment starter lockout switch. Since the "K3" contacts are the only thing between the +24v and the starter solenoid you need to find out if "K3" is energizing, and if NOT, why?

If I remember correctly, the "CR1" diode is located BEHIND the relay base for the "K1" relay. It is soldered into place and you need to remove the entire base to get to it. The "K1" relay is located in the upper right corner of the control cubicle.

 

[Speddmon]

Thanks. I jumped the solenoid with a remote starter switch and the bendix turned but didn't engage the flywheel. I'll take a look at the schematic and work my way back. I jumped the starter lock out switch and got nothing...also checked and cleaned all the grounds--including to the control box. The starter switch works for the glow plugs and fuel pumps and when you turn it to start the fuel solenoid "clicks". I'm thinking it's not the switch.

It did work and the only thing I've done was to unplug the harness at the injector pump. Of course, as we all know, things break while they are just sitting too.

I re-read this thread, and I am confused as to your actual symptoms and problem.

First, you said you unplugged the harness at the IP. Did you plug it back in?

Next you said you used a remote starter switch and were able to get the set to fire off. How exactly did you hook up the remote switch?

And you state that you checked continuity between the switch and the solenoid and it was good. If you did that properly and it checked fine, then your problem lies in the starter solenoid.

Please give more detailed information about EXACTLY what you checked and did. The only way to get to the root of the problem is to know exactly what is going on and what testing you did.

 

[rustystud]

I re-read this thread, and I am confused as to your actual symptoms and problem.

First, you said you unplugged the harness at the IP. Did you plug it back in?

Next you said you used a remote starter switch and were able to get the set to fire off. How exactly did you hook up the remote switch?

And you state that you checked continuity between the switch and the solenoid and it was good. If you did that properly and it checked fine, then your problem lies in the starter solenoid.

Please give more detailed information about EXACTLY what you checked and did. The only way to get to the root of the problem is to know exactly what is going on and what testing you did.

That's why I said to check the solenoid, but he said he replaced the starter.

 

[Gudge2]

Thanks I'll check it out tomorrow. Simple question from someone who has trouble reading electrical schematics. Where is K3, I found K1 and K2?

 

[Gudge2]

OK. I did plug in the harness at the IP. Second, I replaced both the starter and the solenoid. I also checked and readjusted the starter lock out switch. No change. Next I jumped the starter lock-out switch. No Change. I checked continuity between the master switch and the solenoid--no issues there. Next I took one of those hand held trigger switches we used to use to help set dwell or timing on older engine and hooked it up to the power lead on the solenoid and the solenoid lead to the generator starter switch---effectively bypassing the generator's starter switch system. I hit the "trigger" and the engine cranked and started.

 

[rustystud]

Did you ever check the oil pressure switch ? If it's not working you will not start. Just jump it and see.

 

[Speddmon]

OK. I did plug in the harness at the IP. Second, I replaced both the starter and the solenoid. I also checked and readjusted the starter lock out switch. No change. Next I jumped the starter lock-out switch. No Change. I checked continuity between the master switch and the solenoid--no issues there. Next I took one of those hand held trigger switches we used to use to help set dwell or timing on older engine and hooked it up to the power lead on the solenoid and the solenoid lead to the generator starter switch---effectively bypassing the generator's starter switch system. I hit the "trigger" and the engine cranked and started.

You are making me even more confused than ever with contradictory information.

If you checked continuity between the master switch and the solenoid it should NOT have been good. Because you have a normally open K3 contact in that circuit to contend with.

If it was "good" and you bypassed it with a remote start switch, and then the generator worked...obviously it WASN'T good or it would work without the remote start switch.


K3 is one of the 2 larger relays inside of the control cubicle. Look at page 18 of the parts TM, figure 5. The relay in question is part #43 (there are two listed as required for the MEP's) It should also be noted with a marking on the back of the control box.

 

[jamawieb]

OK. I did plug in the harness at the IP. Second, I replaced both the starter and the solenoid. I also checked and readjusted the starter lock out switch. No change. Next I jumped the starter lock-out switch. No Change. I checked continuity between the master switch and the solenoid--no issues there. Next I took one of those hand held trigger switches we used to use to help set dwell or timing on older engine and hooked it up to the power lead on the solenoid and the solenoid lead to the generator starter switch---effectively bypassing the generator's starter switch system. I hit the "trigger" and the engine cranked and started.

Did you ever find out what is causing your starting issue? I have a unit doing the same thing.

 

[F18hornetM]

Just had this same problem on one of my "new" MEP-003As. Did some checking and found bad connection at starter lock out switch. Had continuity through contacts but not at ring terminal on switch. Replaced ithe ring terminal with new one, now good to go.

 

[Gudge2]

Thanks. Especially Speddmon. I still have the same problem. I started over on the diagnostics. I looked at the starter lock out switch, the contacts were touching and I did get continuity. I tried the starter--no cranking. I pulled the lockout plug and jumped the two wires to the control box. Nothing. I took the cover off the K3 relay and pushed the contacts in and---it cranked fine. I connected another K3 relay and tried to crank, nothing. So I'm thinking it's not the starter lockout or the relay. What else would interfere with getting power to the starter? Some posts have indicated the oil pressure switch. I can't find a connection in the TM or electrical diagram. Any other ideas?