mep002a injector pump?

[PA GasPasser]

Success! Once I started using the pick as a tool to remove the clip and not as an instrument to biopsy the bone in my left index finger it came right out. AMBAC says the parts should go out tomorrow.

As a side note: I was going to order some extra of those little clips, but they were only!?! $40 for a (mandatory) ten-pack. I told the lady, if I lose the one I have now, I'll call her back. I see why they are so aptly named.

Thanks everyone for your help!

 

[Triple Jim]

I don't know that particular clip, but if it's just a Jesus clip, you should be able to match it up to something McMaster-Carr stocks.

 

[PA GasPasser]

I don't know that particular clip, but if it's just a Jesus clip, you should be able to match it up to something McMaster-Carr stocks.

Thanks, I was wondering that very thing re: the O-rings. I don't need it, mine is completely serviceable, but I figured having a spare around wouldn't be a bad thing. Ten on the other hand at $4 each was a little much--until I need to.

 

[Jimc]

Ahh great to hear that all worked out for you. Mc-master carr is awesome. They have everything to do everything you ever wanted to do. They are bound to have one if you lose it.

 

[rossbart]

Hey Guys, just bought two trailer mounted MEP002's with ASK enclosures. Both appear to be in excellent condition. One I've started on shows 410 hours. Model year 1991. Fuel tank was about 3/4 full and smelled stale but not too gummy. Oil looked new and overfilled - an oddity later explained by the dry oil filter canister with new filter. Apparently changed oil but didn't run it in.

I did all the customary preps to try and start: flushed & refilled fuel tank w/ fresh diesel incl some diesel Kleen additive, removed & cleaned both fuel pumps. First one was pretty dirty with rusty brown debris. Second pump pretty clean. Fuel strainer looked clean with just a little varnish on canister. Changed fuel filters, purged air at secondary filter housing top then cracked fuel line at injector pump inlet and primed. Fuel came out at IP inlet and seems to be recirculating to fuel tank.

Added couple new batteries and gave it a try. Cranks like a champ but won't start. Glow plugs are working nicely (ouch) but won't fire and no white smoke. Cracked line from IP to injector - no fuel coming through IP. At time didn't know to check the control lever for binding. But, it was not free and not rising when fuel shutoff solenoid energized. It was not locked completely and I spent some time semi-gently working back and forth until it eventually became free. But, still no fuel coming out of IP.

I'm assuming I need to pull the pump as the plunger or something(s) are frozen up. Guy at base said they'd been there about 4 years if that helps. I'm nervous about tearing into it as I have no experience with IPs so have read all of this as well as other posts and downloaded the TMs and read. But, before I pull it I have a few questions I'm hoping y'all can answer:

1) any chance I can free it up without pulling? I cranked it a lot. Is it a certainty that something is broken (like the guide)? Should I try soaking it through ports with something like WD40 or Kroil. If so, which ports would get it where it needs to be? If plunger is stuck out (away from cam lobe) could it be tapped in through the fuel delivery valve assembly hole and possibly freed up?

2) I've looked at several TMs and exploded diagrams but have never seen the black metal plunger guide that you guys have shown broken. Is the pump different than that shown in TMs? Also, the links to AMBAC above from 2013 don't work now.
3) if I find broken parts are they still available from AMBAC?
4) I'm more worried about messing up timing than the pump. If I clean, repair and replace the same pump with same shim, etc and put back on without moving engine crank will it go back on indexed as it came off? I don't really understand the 1/8" drill bit in the timing screw hole step as far as what it's doing as regards timing to extent that is most likely NOT where it was when removed from engine? Is there anything I could or need to do or mark on the driven gear teeth to help in reinstallation without affecting timing?

Thanks in advance for any help or advice you guys can give.
Ross

 

[Keith_J]

The 1/8" pin in the side indexes the pump to the port closing (PC) mark on the flywheel. The cam gear to injector pump face gear teeth are quite coarse, you will get correct mesh. The PC mark lining up only happens on #1 compression so remove the valve cover and make sure both intake and exhaust valves are closed, both push rods are loose. #1 is the cylinder closest to the blower wheel.
Yes, the plunger guide differs from some TMs, nearly all have M50 series pumps, the earlier pumps were somewhat different. Ambac still sells this part.

 

[rossbart]

Thanks for comment, Keith. So no matter how the pump is removed and irrespective of whether the engine crank is moved while IP is out or not I will still need to reinstall the pump with the alignment pin (1/8th" drill bit) in the pump and the crank aligned to PC of #1 compression stroke (either by using method 1 or 2). Is that correct?

 

[robkiller]

Timing is easy but yes you will need to time it after taking the injector pump out. Its easier then it sounds.

 

[Isaac-1]

While timing may be easy the existing instructions are not that easy to follow, so it would sure be nice if someone made a youtube video of the process and maybe a few others like valve lash adjustment...

 

[rossbart]

Okay, got it pulled and on bench. Didn't match diagram in the TM. But, finally found an online manual from AMBAC that does and proceeding. I'm at point of trying to get the hydraulic head seperated from the main body and having no luck yet. Manual says "in some instances, it may be necessary to tap bottom of head with rawhide mallet." Don't want to tear it up out of ignorance. QUESTION: when they say strike the 'bottom of head' are they meaning the face gear on the bottom? How hard can this be handled? Is there anything in there that can be damaged if you hit it too hard. Any ideas or comments from those who have been down this road is much appreciated.

 

[rossbart]

Update: finally got head separated from the body. I'm on step 12 from the AMBAC manual which is where the special tool and arbor press is called for.
First question: it says "With plunger in its highest position"? I'm attaching a pic of how my pump is presented right now. I'm unclear here. Mine doesn't seem to move up or down. Is that the problem and what's stuck? From comparing this to the cutaway view pic attached maybe mine is a bit more retracted (not in highest position)? Tried tapping it down through the delivery valve hole. Didn't move, but I didn't hit it too hard.
Second question: what are you guys using to compress the spring that also allows you to reach in to retrieve the split retaining rings? Do I need to cut a notch out of socket or something like that? And, is the spring tension such that a press is actually needed or maybe just a buddy to press it down? Obviously if getting it off is this tedious a worry about the reassembly...
Any help greatly appreciated.

 

[rossbart]

Upon closer inspection, I think that the plunger is indeed stuck in the spring compressed position. I had thought it was free because the tappet was free at the bottom. However, I think it was just free play in the bore. Looking from the top into the delivery valve hole the top of the plunger shaft is just about even with the first taper/shoulder (see arrow on the the cross section diagram) and no port is visible.
IF my assumption is correct, anybody have any advice on how to get it unstuck? I've had it soaking in WD40 for about a day. Would seem that it could be driven down and free from the delivery valve hole on top. But, wouldn't want to damage the top of it. Maybe a wooden dowel???

 

[rossbart]

Pics

 

[gimpyrobb]

You need to pull the fuel stop out of the side before you do that and then a couple other things. Post a pic so we know what we are telling you to do is right.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Ok, I didn't see those pics till I posted. So you pulled the plunger out of the hydraulic head through the bottom? That can't be good.

 

[rossbart]

Tried to attach pics to last post (twice) but didn't work. Gonna try again. As to plunger coming out the bottom, that seems to be what step #10 in the AMBAC manual instructed. Seemed that only its o-ring in the drive gear bore was holding it in. On your instruction to remove the fuel stop I assume that's the control unit assembly (lever) and it's is removed and the hydraulic head is separated from main body. I think I'm down to step #12 but I think my plunger is stuck in all the way in instead of extended as it says. Plan is to get a brass punch tomorrow and see if I can get the plunger shaft free'd up (by driving down through the delivery valve hole) and extended down then figure out how to get the little split rings out to release the lower spring guide, tappet spring, etc.. Does anything in that plan sound wrong? Hope pics attach

 

[gimpyrobb]

Its hard to say. From looking at your pics, it seems as if your plunger is broken in 2. There is a plunger in the pic of your Hydr head and there is a plunger in the bottom gear that spins the IP.

Any bottom pics of the HH or top pics of the drive gear thingy?

 

[gimpyrobb]

OK, his hydraulic head and the bottom gear thingy were removed as a unit! No broken plunger yet. I would pull the half "C" spring retainers before you try to tap the plunger out.

 

[rossbart]

Okay, got it all apart. Plunger was quite stuck but after a hot ATF bath (thanks GimpyRobb) and brass punch it freed up. To my surprise, the plunger guide was not broken. But, is is buggered up a little. Seems that the plunger succeeded in turning about 40 degrees in the guide which is where I found it - stuck. I'm attaching couple pics. I hammered the blurred up areas back down and ground and filed best I could and have it trial fit back together. It seems to be working ok and everything is rotating and plunging freely. But, I'm not sure whether it's ok or not. Sure don't want to have to pull again and redo.
In summary, I have two parts that are not pristine: plunger guide and the delivery valve spacer. On the later, I can't even tell for sure what it is. About 2/3rds of it is still firmly stuck to the bottom of the delivery valve. The other third broke and fell off. Again, not sure what it is or what it does. Almost looks like bees wax. Pic attached.
Think I need these two parts? If so, where would I best try to obtain?

 

[gimpyrobb]

Thats sr 8515. I just sent the last good one I had out. I think I have the drive washer. I'll get back to you after I try starting my deuce tonight.