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MEP002A misfire

Trashistreasure

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Hello all new to the site like to start with the thanks for any help I get.
recently acquired a MEP002a from a well-known acquaintance (I am his go to generator mechanic, most of my knowledge learned on the job fixing his generator as he lives off grid) it was taken out of service due to troubles with the master control switch from vibrations. I replaced master control switch and it should have been a turnkey task from there. Not to my surprise with my shit for luck it kind of started barely running lots of smoke some of which was coming back out the intake manifold along with some fuel (at this time I have the intake air heaters out waiting on replacements as they burnt out due to the preheater contacts getting stuck on from the master switch Failure). I Immediately started with the basics of cleaning fuel pump strainers and replacing fuel filters as the unit sat for about two years prior to me acquiring it, no fuel in the day tank as it was set up running from a 55 gallon drum, so I was starting from fresh clean fuel in the tank, no change. Next i removed dismantled and cleaned the injectors Detaching spinning 180° reattaching and testing before dismantling had a spray that looked more like a spray bottle squirting a stream. After cleaning in rechecking appeared to be more of a mist like I thought it should be, reinstalled tried running again still no difference. I went through a process of flow testing the injector pump to check for correct timing through the process to the best of my ability confirms that number one cylinder is closing the injector port precisely on the PC timing mark so it appears the injector pump timing is still correct from this point I believe the number one cylinder should have been in the compression stroke so I moved to the letter A timing mark and set the valves according to manual spec tried starting still no difference there is exhaust coming out the intake acting like it’s running out of Time. Again this unit had been running making power eight hours a day at an off grid property and was only taken out of service because the master control switch problem was noticed due to Heavy duty intake tube ($80 for 1 foot “Turbo Hose”) melting off the intake manifold. I am now several hundred dollars into what should have been a simple fix and very frustrated.
 

Kenny0

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I think the hose melting off the intake manifold is your clue. Remove the intake manifold and use a pen light and mirror to check for debris around the intake valves. I would say there is debris preventing one or both intake valves from closing all the way. If that is what it is, you will need to go back and readjust your valves after cleaning.
 

Ray70

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I think I know your friend that you bought this machine from... I sold an 802a to a guy named Nick and I think his uncle? ? This past summer. He was telling me about this machine and the melted intake hose and bad switch and wanted to know if I had a spare master switch to sell him.
I'm in RI and it looks like you are too...
Kenny0 is on the right path, if the intake hose melted and you now have fuel and exhaust smoke coming back out the intake, there's a good chance you have a leaky, dirty or burnt valve. You can try removing the intake and start it up and see which cylinder is the culprit, or what I do is I made a compression adapter that fits in place of the injector. I fill the cylinder with compressed air and check for leaky valves ( loosen rocker arms to ensure both valves are closed )
If you find a leak you can remove the keeper and valve spring, put a cordless drill on the valve tip and spin the valve while the air is pushing it closed. If you have carbon or other crap on the valve seat this may scrape it off. If that doesn't work you may be looking at pulling the head off and checking the valve.

Sounds like you already have a good understanding of these machines, so this shouldn't be too hard to get to the bottom of!
 

Trashistreasure

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ray70, you connect those dots pretty easily. This is the unit you are referring to. I had to jump at the chance to pick this up cheap money needing lots of love. Good tips on how to go forward I will update once I have investigated. The obstructed valve theory seems to fall in line with the symptoms I’m having
 

Ray70

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Since you refer to the tube as $80 a foot I assume you already purchased a replacement?
If not I recently bought some hose from Rock Auto, for cheap. I used marine exhaust tube to replace both sections of air intake hose.
I think I paid more like $12 for a 17" length for the "Bent side" and maybe $10 for the one that melted on you, if you haven't purchased yours yet, take a look at their website. I think it may have been clearance stuff I found , but they might still have something available.
 

Trashistreasure

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Good to know about the exhaust tube. I would it would stand up to heat and pressure just as well as turbo tube. Lucky for me the former owner included the replacement tube as that was as far as he got on the repair b4 realizing a lot of other things needed to b addressed witch is when he figured buying a new turnkey unit would b easier/ more cost affective than the paying me to repair this broken down one.
 

Trashistreasure

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Definitely debris in the valves I rigged up a fitting through the glow plug port removed intake rocker arm in air is free flowing through the cylinder out the intake. Crossing my fingers I don’t have to pull the head off just fired up the air compressor hoping it will hold the valve
 

Trashistreasure

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Compressor can’t keep up with air leak and she’s not a baby 15 CFM or so at 175 PSI.
i’m thinking fabing a plate to put over the intake at the head since I currently have the manifold removed to help keep pressure in the cylinder?
 

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Trashistreasure

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I was able to get a grip on the valve stem with a 3/8 pneumatic drill with out removing spring and keeper and spin the valve but it was unsuccessful in helping the leak.
 

Coug

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If that much air compressor can't keep up with the leak, I think best bet is to bite the bullet and pull the head for a better look. You'll want to make sure nothing got past the valve and damaged the piston or cylinder wall at minimum, piston damage won't show up during a leakdown test but can cause long term issues.
Also another possibility is the valve hung up and contacted the piston, getting bent in the process (I don't know if these are interference engines or not, but even if they aren't there's a chance something is bent if any debris got in and it impacted the valve.

Not sure why you would put a plate to block off the intake? is the plan to see if that cylinder is leaking anywhere else along with the intake valve?
 

Trashistreasure

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I agree and have concluded the head needs to come off for a proper inspection and hopefully cheep fix, aside from the $100 for the new head gasket.
Blocking The intake was to hold pressure in the cylinder to keep the valve held up while I removed keeper and spring to try to attach a drill to spin the valve and clear debris as suggested by others. I didn’t want a lost in pressure to cause me to lose the valve in the cylinder
 

Coug

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I agree and have concluded the head needs to come off for a proper inspection and hopefully cheep fix, aside from the $100 for the new head gasket.
Blocking The intake was to hold pressure in the cylinder to keep the valve held up while I removed keeper and spring to try to attach a drill to spin the valve and clear debris as suggested by others. I didn’t want a lost in pressure to cause me to lose the valve in the cylinder
Putting a block off plate would actually defeat the purpose of the air pressure then, as soon as pressure built up behind the valve, there would be nothing to hold it in place.

Once you have the head off, my suggestion would be find an automotive machine shop and have them check everything out. Especially if there is any valve or valve seat damage. It would be a few more dollars, but the peace of mind knowing the head is flat, the valve seats and valves are properly mating, there are no cracks in the head, and the valve guides are good is worth every penny.
 

Ray70

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I just bought 3 of the new style head gaskets for that motor, I paid $12.99 each. let me see if I can figure out where they came from. I know it was a diesel supply store I found on-line by googling the PN of the head gasket. Never search for parts by looking up "Mep-002A head gasket" you will probably over pay.
Search by the onan PN. 110-3635 for the new style graphite gasket. Should be able to find plenty for under $15.
 

Ray70

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If your compressor can't keep up, you will probably find an obvious problem once you get the head off ( which is a very simple job )
Probably gonna find catastrophic valve damage on the bad cyl. , something more than just a small leak. If you can't see any valve damage, flip the head upside down and out kerosene or brake / carb cleaner in the pocket around the valves, it should not leak through into the intake port.
 

Trashistreasure

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Ray70 thanks for the link on those head gaskets I was unsure if they were actually the right ones but if you have bought them and use them I will trust that they are correct
 

Trashistreasure

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So update got to head off and have a broken intake valve on cylinder 2. one of the pieces found its way into cylinder 1. Had a minor exhaust leak on cylinder one but no signs of severe damages to the valves four cylinder.
there is some pitting on the cylinders due to the pieces banging around in the motor.

I really don’t have time money or experience to do a complete engine tear down and replace the pistons. I know most will nasay replacing the broken valve and putting it back together. At this point this machine is a right off so I don’t have much to lose hence trying to keep the expenses to an absolute bare minimum. I’m not looking for this machine to go back to war just a nice security blanket to know I can run my entire house if the grid goes out. keep in mind this is not a necessity I have other generators that keep the essentials going This is like an emergency back up of my auxiliary back up
 

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Ray70

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I hear you... I agree, given the situation I say slap in a new valve, lap all 4 valves while you're there, replace the head gasket.
Before putting it all back together just pop the head on and pressure test it again, if it seems good, complete the assembly and fire up.
My only question would be what caused it to break in the first place?
 
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